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Full Version: Can Trads in the US, Canada or Western Europe be Lazarus?
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http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=23161#p3

Read and discuss.  Sorry not to cut and paste but not sure how to do that and keep the formatting.
Cut and paste from Greg's link above:

The problem with your analogy is that none of you "poor" men are Lazurus in real life, much though you like to think you are as you wallow there in your self pity and envy.

You have a citizenship and passport that confers all sorts of freedoms to travel that 5 billion people in Latin America, Africa and Asia would give their eye teeth for. You speak, natively, the world's common business language which puts you at an enormous advantage over 90 percent of the world. You live in one of the richest countries in the world, a place where you don't need to beg for scraps from the rich man's table, because they are falling down all the time by the way of free libraries, free adult education, (especially on the Internet), internships, welfare payments, 24 by 7 electricity, houses heated in winter and cooled in summer. Then there is abundant clean water, drinking water, which you use to flush your poo away and wash in, not merely drink. Then there are volunteer groups, open University courses, conveniently in your native language, not to mention an incredible wealth of knowledge and skills training in billions of hours of free video and trillions of pages of free books. Free clothing is on offer from charity shops, 90 percent of it hardly worn at all which by virtue of your birthright you have access to while 5 billion true Lazari don't.

Do you need some nice furniture or a good working TV or computer monitor? Wander around a middle class neighbourhood on a Saturday morning and some affluent person is throwing one out because their wife has changed the colour of the drapes and the old sofa did not match or because they now have a 50 inch LED and no need for the 42 inch plasma. Easier still, hang around at the municipal tip reading a free library book while you wait for one of a colour and taste that suits you to arrive on a rich man's trailer. He will help you lift it to your truck as well and shake your hand at the end.

And for the sake of brevity let's not even mention the medicine at your 24 hour pharmacy which means you don't have to suffer headaches, toothaches, vitamin deficiency or parasites of the gut or the eye.

Most of you have had stable two parent family upbringings. You had had free education of a very high quality, globally speaking, access to computers from childhood, access to a wholly disproportionate personal share of the world's energy resources, you have free Internet access at the library or the local coffee shop and cheap Internet at home.

Lazurus? You should neither insult the 5 billion nor flatter yourself. If you wish to find where you are given mention by Christ in the Gospel try St. Matthew (chapter 25, verses 14-30).
More importantly, how can you make nearly four hundred posts on that site without getting banned?  Huh?    Smile
(02-25-2013, 12:25 AM)ggreg Wrote: [ -> ]http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=23161#p3

Read and discuss.  Sorry not to cut and paste but not sure how to do that and keep the formatting.

I think you assumed they were calling themselves Lazarus when in fact they weren't.  I think your take on the parable of the talents is wrong.  It's not about making worldly riches with your God given talents.
It's an interesting post. He speaks nothing of spiritual matters - only about material things, so he clearly does not understand the "Lazarus" analogy.  Perhaps he did not listen to the 2nd reading from the NO Mass today, where they read:
"Whose end is destruction; whose God is their belly; and whose glory is in their shame; who mind earthly things." (Philippians 3:19)  Hmmm...

And BTW, I attended the TLM Solemn High Mass today. I was looking at the NO readings for another reason.
(02-25-2013, 02:19 AM)mikemac Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-25-2013, 12:25 AM)ggreg Wrote: [ -> ]http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=23161#p3

Read and discuss.  Sorry not to cut and paste but not sure how to do that and keep the formatting.

I think you assumed they were calling themselves Lazarus when in fact they weren't.  I think your take on the parable of the talents is wrong.  It's not about making worldly riches with your God given talents.

Why not?  Don't people who start businesses and take risks and innovate create jobs and wealth?

I would not limit God.  I think the parable of the talents is about ALL the talents God has given you.  Spiritual as well as temporal.

Show me I am wrong.
(02-25-2013, 02:17 AM)Dino Wrote: [ -> ]More importantly, how can you make nearly four hundred posts on that site without getting banned?   Huh?     Smile

When they seek to canonise me, perhaps this can be my "miracle".
(02-25-2013, 02:48 AM)ggreg Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-25-2013, 02:17 AM)Dino Wrote: [ -> ]More importantly, how can you make nearly four hundred posts on that site without getting banned?   Huh?     Smile

When they seek to canonise me, perhaps this can be my "miracle".

LOL
(02-25-2013, 02:46 AM)ggreg Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-25-2013, 02:19 AM)mikemac Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-25-2013, 12:25 AM)ggreg Wrote: [ -> ]http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=23161#p3

Read and discuss.  Sorry not to cut and paste but not sure how to do that and keep the formatting.

I think you assumed they were calling themselves Lazarus when in fact they weren't.  I think your take on the parable of the talents is wrong.  It's not about making worldly riches with your God given talents.

Why not?  Don't people who start businesses and take risks and innovate create jobs and wealth?

I would not limit God.  I think the parable of the talents is about ALL the talents God has given you.  Spiritual as well as temporal.

Show me I am wrong.

Greg notice that the parable of the ten virgins comes before the parable of the talents in Matthew 25.  I'll just post the end part of the parable of the ten virgins.

Matthew 25: 8-13 "And the foolish said to the wise: Give us of your oil, for our lamps are gone out. [9] The wise answered, saying: Lest perhaps there be not enough for us and for you, go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. [10] Now whilst they went to buy, the bridegroom came: and they that were ready, went in with him to the marriage, and the door was shut. [11] But at last come also the other virgins, saying: Lord, Lord, open to us. [12] But he answering said: Amen I say to you, I know you not. [13] Watch ye therefore, because you know not the day nor the hour."

Now if you read beyond Matthew 25, verse 30 you'll see that the chapter beyond the parable of the talents ends similar to the way the parable of the ten virgins ends.  Both parables are dealing with the spiritual, how to get to heaven.  They have completely nothing to do with making worldly riches with your God given talents.     
How does this line make any sense in that context?

27 Then you ought to have invested my money with the bankers, and at my coming I should have received what was my own with interest.

How can you give your exclusively spiritual gifts to bankers?  That makes absolutely no sense in an exclusively spiritual context.

Why did he bury the talent and do nothing with it?  That is not the equivalent of what people do with their spiritual gifts.  They either respond to them or they let them die, waste away.  They don't bury them.

If he had spent the talent on booze or gambled it away you might have a point.  But he gave back what he was given?  What was lost was not absolute but opportunity cost.

God is consistent.  If he expects ROI from our spiritual gifts then he also expects it from our material and worldly skills too.  We after all are beings with twin natures, as is God. When God gives someone great talent for art, music, business he expects them to use that to deliver a positive return.



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