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(03-08-2013, 06:45 PM)mikemac Wrote: [ -> ]Well StCeciliasGirl most of us here think that people with SSA should DWIP and stop ITC.  Papist and Vox don't, and Vox owns the forum so I guess this thread is pretty much stifled.  Seeing it seems to be the biggest problem in the Church these days it doesn't make sense to me to stifle it but there you have it.

I'm sorry: I thought we were all on the same page, tbh, just discussing the particulars. But I don't know what DWIP and stop ITC might mean.

Seeing as how my grave inclination is personality-related (INTJ) and I tend to come off as somewhat cold (unintentionally), I can't imagine NOT trying to change my inner "me"; who I "am", because I wouldn't be pleasing to God as I am. I can't imagine going to a group INTJ meeting and discussing my personality issues, because I believe we'd end up solidifying the sinful parts of our natures instead of trying to change our innate beings to be more like Our Lady and Christ. (I can't speak for everyone who's been labeled INTJ, but I have to work at seeing the Jesus in people, and I really have to watch my mouth, which while not screechy in the least, can be a bit cutting. Again, unintentionally.) It's surely an everyday struggle to cultivate the best parts of my nature gifted by God and banish the worst parts.

And, having had gay friends, since my personality isn't naturally warm but actually quite abrasive if I'm not careful and really, only the gays seemed to gravitate to me, I can speak for one of them who, being Christian (Catholic) yet feeling attracted to men, quite successfully put his priorities in order (be like Christ, embrace the best parts of your inner being with the help of Our Lady, Adoration, prayer, rosaries, &c). And he was successful for so many years, as we all know that ridding the "bad" is a lifetime effort of daily struggles, and he found working for the Church and helping the poor (well, elderly and rich, but poor in spirit) kept his mind free of sinful inclinations and made him feel closer to God.

Unfortunately, one year he REALLY wanted to rid the "gay" forever, as he would find himself attracted to a random man (perfectly natural for him, just like I'm likely to revert to my brash personality if I'm not most careful and focused on God and our cloud of witnesses!). He was talked into becoming a monk. (Don't ask me what kind; I get them mixed up except Franciscans, and it wasn't the Franciscans. Good God, it might have been Jesuits!  :O ) —Regardless, my poor gay friend left the state, not "identifying" as a gay man at all, but as a humble Christian, and wanting to devote himself to helping others, and a year later returned in sin. (His words.) We'd been BFFs for several years, and when he returned, he didn't even call! In fact, he'd refused to talk to me or my husband, as if (I kid you not) I were a harlot wanting his body. I was crushed (as I'm married and not given to adultery). A few YEARS after his return, we finally had a sit-down, and he told me of all the "gays" at the camp (and I know it's properly a monastery, but this monastery had a camp for gays, or for gays to work in for youthful gays; he called it "camp"), and they were pretty much hosting orgies, not even doing their prayers as he'd become accustomed to.

So from personal experience only, I think if you want to squash a trait that might cause you to sin, even if the priest encourages you to go to a monastery or other "support group", that priest is doing you no favor. My former BFF gay now is living with a man, and they're "active". He's quit the Church, because he felt the Church gayed him up and that God couldn't possibly love him.

I hate the pain I see him in, but he's ostracized himself from his former friends out of (again, his words) embarrassment. And refuses to believe we understand that "the Church" (and yes, it was fully N.O. RCC straight out of the book CHURCH) misled him; abused him; caused him to feel ruined. Which is why I can see my grandmother's (RIP ✝) point about SSPX very easily. Too easily, sometimes. I see people HURT because of "the Church", and I simply won't believe God will have these asshole priests and Bishops even in Purgatory, because they purposefully and with intent led POOR SOULS to perdition.

Ah, let me tell you THE FATE of this "priest" who led my gay friend to his current sad state; the priest who I knew to be invalid even though people SCREAMED at me I should attend my "home parish" (to which I responded, "like Hell". Not very charitable, I know. As I indicated, my charity well isn't very deep when it comes to satanic butt faces in the Church). This "priest" who sent my BFF away to Gay Camp after my friend had been so happy and "found God"? Not a valid priest. Oh he was ordained, all official-like. I think there's a kink in the "line" somewhere (the apostolic line); some Satanic kink that screwed up our seminarians, essentially meaning they were never valid to begin with. Oh, how could I think such a thing? My goodness, because this priest quit, got married, (wait for it!) committed adultery, and was eventually "banned." (That's what "his former fans" whispered to me, anyway; I believe they meant "excommunicated; as in, the Bishop went to the trouble of doing the paperwork and damning the man to Hell, where he clearly belongs.) (I liked that Bishop :D )

Not that we don't ALL deserve Hell, of course; but that we should strive, earnestly, to be like Jesus. We fail; we repent; we mean it, we keep carrying our cross. But when our Bishops or priests purposefully lead us astray, no, I don't believe they can be forgiven by a priest. True, it seems I'm not fully in agreement with the RCC (until these buzzards get exposed and are defrocked, heh), but I SUSPECT that Paul VI abolishing St. Pius X's Oath Against Modernism got us where we are today. I'm looking at Paul VI; he led us there; he's responsible; and if he's canonized, I'll know all I need to know. These priests who lead souls to Hell (so they think) will burn in Hell. And rightfully so. They can chat with their errant Confessors there who promised them absolution, as well. Because unlike most of us, they know what they're doing and willfully lead the poorest to sin.

I do love my gay friends, even (or especially) the one who's fallen away, because he didn't fall — he was KICKED DOWN by an invalid priest, and I am furious about that, because it's hardly "an isolated incident". So I'll in good conscience pray for my actively gay friend, and I'll pray God's will be done for those sons of Satan who try to ruin the Church from the inside. We MUST call them out; we MUST USE our God-given gifts (truth, &c) to carry on the repairs that His Holiness was working on before retirement. That is: ridding the clergy of homos.
Please don't destroy this thread! It is most interesting. I have a son who says he feels he is being called to be a priest. He is a a wonderful guy, good looking, talented and valedictorian of his class. He has been reading this thread with me and he is making me write this even though he is not gay and he finds the ladies attractive and vice versa. So please keep writing!!
Sounds like more the posters here are more concerns with proving how "tough" on gays they are, and less concerned with what actually might convert the sinner. Again, I remember something about millstones.
On the cuddlegate thread we had a few Catholics with same sex attractions who didn't seem to be bothered by a lot of what was being said.  One kinda disagreed, but then he didn't run off crying either.  I don't think calling a spade a spade is as detrimental as you might think.
(03-09-2013, 01:59 PM)Pheo Wrote: [ -> ]On the cuddlegate thread we had a few Catholics with same sex attractions who didn't seem to be bothered by a lot of what was being said.  One kinda disagreed, but then he didn't run off crying either.  I don't think calling a spade a spade is as detrimental as you might think.

I think saying someone with SSA who doesn't act on it cannot be saved, saying there are sins that cannot be forgiven, questioning a priest's ordination because he's a sinner and calling people in the Church "butt faces" might be detrimental.  But that's just me.   :tiphat:
(03-09-2013, 02:06 PM)DrBombay Wrote: [ -> ]I think saying someone with SSA who doesn't act on it cannot be saved, saying there are sins that cannot be forgiven, questioning a priest's ordination because he's a sinner and calling people in the Church "butt faces" might be detrimental.  But that's just me.   :tiphat:

I must have missed most of that.  That's not what has been settled on here though.
(03-09-2013, 02:12 PM)Pheo Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-09-2013, 02:06 PM)DrBombay Wrote: [ -> ]I think saying someone with SSA who doesn't act on it cannot be saved, saying there are sins that cannot be forgiven, questioning a priest's ordination because he's a sinner and calling people in the Church "butt faces" might be detrimental.  But that's just me.   :tiphat:

I must have missed most of that.  That's not what has been settled on here though.

It's not?  Oh.

What has been settled on here then?
Traditionalmom made some of the points I think you're alluding to, but she also seemed to acknowledge the Church's teaching on appetites and consent.

In any case, I don't see why we have to tiptoe around any sin.  Feel free to start equally harsh (?) threads on drunkenness, masturbation, what have you.  They're all sinful and must be stopped if one is to live as a faithful Catholic.
(03-09-2013, 02:24 PM)Pheo Wrote: [ -> ]Traditionalmom made some of the points I think you're alluding to, but she also seemed to acknowledge the Church's teaching on appetites and consent.

In any case, I don't see why we have to tiptoe around any sin.  Feel free to start equally harsh (?) threads on drunkenness, masturbation, what have you.  They're all sinful and must be stopped if one is to live as a faithful Catholic.

Shouldn't drunks and self abusers DWIP and stop ITC?  Why do we need to discuss these problems on a public forum?
(03-09-2013, 03:07 PM)DrBombay Wrote: [ -> ]Shouldn't drunks and self abusers DWIP and stop ITC?  Why do we need to discuss these problems on a public forum?

If you're going to parody an argument, it should at least be analogous :((
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