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(03-10-2013, 01:08 AM)JayneK Wrote: [ -> ]People in this thread, who have no clue what happens at a Courage meeting have been condemning them. 

From page 3:
(03-07-2013, 01:44 PM)Burdensome1 Wrote: [ -> ]I am not discussing "what goes on in" such a meeting.  That's a typical internet trivialization of a good point.  A meeting of homosexuals brings together people for whom each other are the near occasion of sin.  By definition.  I don't need to know what it is said, (and it seems kind of dim on your part, considering the otherwise high level of your posts, to think that I do) to comment on the structure of the thing.  Thank God that, as far as I am aware, no seminary staff ever hit on the idea of bringing all the gay seminarians together in a meeting to seek "courage" together.  How about seeking courage with your confessor or spiritual director THE WAY THE REST OF US DO. (yelling is on purpose).  Our way is Catholic and at least preserves us from our temptations during the actual time we are seeking to repent and cannot promote any public scandal.       
m.PR, on this logic, many people should not be posting on Fisheaters, because it is an occasion of the sin of spiritual pride, allowing them to get together like a pack of hyenas to attack "other" sinners (but with an important difference -- they are by no means encouraging each other to stop).

A holy Orthodox priest, who had the gift of reading hearts, once told me something very profound:  "All sins are the same sin."

That's something to meditate on, especially during Lent.
(03-10-2013, 07:52 AM)m.PR Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-10-2013, 01:08 AM)JayneK Wrote: [ -> ]People in this thread, who have no clue what happens at a Courage meeting have been condemning them. 

From page 3:
(03-07-2013, 01:44 PM)Burdensome1 Wrote: [ -> ]I am not discussing "what goes on in" such a meeting.  That's a typical internet trivialization of a good point.  A meeting of homosexuals brings together people for whom each other are the near occasion of sin.  By definition.  I don't need to know what it is said, (and it seems kind of dim on your part, considering the otherwise high level of your posts, to think that I do) to comment on the structure of the thing.  Thank God that, as far as I am aware, no seminary staff ever hit on the idea of bringing all the gay seminarians together in a meeting to seek "courage" together.  How about seeking courage with your confessor or spiritual director THE WAY THE REST OF US DO. (yelling is on purpose).  Our way is Catholic and at least preserves us from our temptations during the actual time we are seeking to repent and cannot promote any public scandal.       

While Burdensome may deny making assumptions about Courage and its meetings, there have been repeated comments throughout this thread about the meetings being some form of group therapy and that the meetings being an occasion of sin for its participants.  These were assumptions with no apparent factual basis.

In the particular case of seminarians with SSA, they obviously should be leaving the seminary rather than forming a Courage chapter there.  I see no reason to think that anyone in this thread was proposing a Courage chapter for seminarians.
(03-10-2013, 08:00 AM)ImpyTerwilliger Wrote: [ -> ]m.PR, on this logic, many people should not be posting on Fisheaters, because it is an occasion of the sin of spiritual pride, allowing them to get together like a pack of hyenas to attack "other" sinners (but with an important difference -- they are by no means encouraging each other to stop).  

False analogy. While spending a lot of time in Fisheaters can be spiritually detrimental, traditionalism, unlike sodomy, is not a sin. For starters.


(03-10-2013, 08:12 AM)JayneK Wrote: [ -> ]While Burdensome may deny making assumptions about Courage and its meetings, there have been repeated comments throughout this thread about the meetings being some form of group therapy and that the meetings being an occasion of sin for its participants.  These were assumptions with no apparent factual basis.

Sure. But that's not the core of the argument, which is that the structure of the thing is bad because it helps people with same-sex attraction identify and spend time with and share their struggles with other people with same-sex attraction, of the same sex.

It seems a very strong argument, at least for those of us who believe there are some situations that are intrinsically occasions of sin.
Quote:And Jesus went unto mount Olivet. And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came to him, and sitting down he taught them. And the scribes and the Pharisees bring unto him a woman taken in adultery: and they set her in the midst, And said to him: Master, this woman was even now taken in adultery. Now Moses in the law commanded us to stone such a one. But what sayest thou?

And this they said tempting him, that they might accuse him. But Jesus bowing himself down, wrote with his finger on the ground. When therefore they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said to them: He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. And again stooping down, he wrote on the ground. [9] But they hearing this, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest. And Jesus alone remained, and the woman standing in the midst. Then Jesus lifting up himself, said to her: Woman, where are they that accused thee? Hath no man condemned thee?

Who said: No man, Lord. And Jesus said: Neither will I condemn thee. Go, and now sin no more. Again therefore, Jesus spoke to them, saying: I am the light of the world: he that followeth me, walketh not in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

John 8:1-12 (a traditional source).
I'll stand by what I've said. I don't think I need to be enlightened about it. I know good Catholics suffer about it but it doesn't make it a special thing. It's wrong. We shouldn't lie.
(03-10-2013, 08:31 AM)ImpyTerwilliger Wrote: [ -> ]
Quote:And Jesus said: Neither will I condemn thee. Go, and now sin no more. Again therefore, Jesus spoke to them, saying: I am the light of the world: he that followeth me, walketh not in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

John 8:1-12 (a traditional source).

Yep.
(03-10-2013, 08:34 AM)Benno Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-10-2013, 08:31 AM)ImpyTerwilliger Wrote: [ -> ]
Quote:And Jesus said: Neither will I condemn thee. Go, and now sin no more. Again therefore, Jesus spoke to them, saying: I am the light of the world: he that followeth me, walketh not in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

John 8:1-12 (a traditional source).

Yep.

That's right, Benno.  Being Catholic means accepting everything taught by Our Lord.  Everything.
So getting back to Lent...
Any way, the real point for me is that there is a real group within the Church that influences things in a bad way and should be called out. Considering sin during Lent involves considering damage to the Body of Christ as well as to the individual. Which is what I wanted to say but thought best not to in post #2!
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