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(03-10-2013, 11:37 AM)Tim Wrote: [ -> ]Surfing, I fell on Chris Matthews as he was closing. He had a poll which showed that a majority of US Catholics support Gay marriage. To put the cherry on the top of this vile sundae Andrew Sullivan, quipped perhaps some day the Church will too, seeing how many gays are electing the Pope. That guy can make my blood boil.

tim

Just goes to show how society can change when they start to accept it.  And society has not been accepting of it for very long.  Basically it's followed in the footsteps of the radical feminist movement.

Quote:Although homosexual acts were decriminalized in some parts of the Western world, such as Poland in 1932, Denmark in 1933, Sweden in 1944, and the United Kingdom in 1967, it was not until the mid-1970s that the gay community first began to achieve limited civil rights in some developed countries. On July 2, 2009, homosexuality was decriminalized in India by a High Court ruling.[185] A turning point was reached in 1973 when the American Psychiatric Association removed homosexuality from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, thus negating its previous definition of homosexuality as a clinical mental disorder. In 1977, Quebec became the first state-level jurisdiction in the world to prohibit discrimination on the grounds of sexual orientation. During the 1980s and 1990s, most developed countries enacted laws decriminalizing homosexual behavior and prohibiting discrimination against lesbian and gay people in employment, housing, and services. On the other hand, many countries today in the Middle East and Africa, as well as several countries in Asia, the Caribbean and the South Pacific, outlaw homosexuality. In six countries, homosexual behavior is punishable by life imprisonment; in ten others, it carries the death penalty.

And just so we know, one of the first gay priests to come out as gay was Robert Carter, a Jesuit and co-founder of the LGBT advocacy group the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force.  That proves to me the deliberate infiltration of the clergy.
(03-10-2013, 12:27 PM)mikemac Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah I thought Akavit's post was very well reasoned too.  Particularly where he says "No, a chaste person is a chaste person and a reformed sinner is a reformed sinner."  That's why I asked "How long are you going to call yourself a person with SSA?  Twenty years?  Thirty years?  Your whole life?"  Past sins are not a badge of honour.
You;re not getting it al all. Once more, "SSA" IS NOT A SIN.

SSA is NOT sinful.

It is not a sin to have SSA.

It is not a sin to be a homosexual.

To be a homosexual is not sinful; it is sexually acting on homosexual impulses that is sinful.

I'm not sure how many other ways I can put it, but as to your question,  "How long are you going to call yourself a person with SSA?  Twenty years?  Thirty years?  Your whole life?" ,  the answer would be, obviously, "as long as it is true and as long as you have the guts to not care whether people know who you really are."
And there you go again Vox, assuming something that I did not say.  "The media has succeeded in establishing two ideas in the minds of the masses: the first being that homosexuals are born and can do nothing to change it and secondly, that sexual attraction cannot be resisted without psychological damage.  Consequently, if you call chaste people gay, you have succeeded in smearing their reputation regardless of your intention."
(03-10-2013, 01:36 PM)mikemac Wrote: [ -> ]And there you go again Vox, assuming something that I did not say.  "The media has succeeded in establishing two ideas in the minds of the masses: the first being that homosexuals are born and can do nothing to change it and secondly, that sexual attraction cannot be resisted without psychological damage.  Consequently, if you call chaste people gay, you have succeeded in smearing their reputation regardless of your intention."

You'd written this --

"Yeah I thought Akavit's post was very well reasoned too.  Particularly where he says "No, a chaste person is a chaste person and a reformed sinner is a reformed sinner."  That's why I asked "How long are you going to call yourself a person with SSA?  Twenty years?  Thirty years?  Your whole life?"  Past sins are not a badge of honour."

-- which intimates to me that you believe there are no chaste people who have SSA. You contrast "reformed sinner" with -- a person with SSA, which is not a sin. Why else would you ask how long a chaste person with SSA should refer to himself as being a person with SSA?

Most folks I know don't believe that homosexuals are born with SSA, so whatever the media are doing, it's not working in my neck of the woods. In any case, here you're now changing your post that I was referring to, which is the one I quote above.  In the one you are NOW referencing, you're talking about the word "gay", something I did not talk about at all in my post. I used the term "SSA."
(03-09-2013, 09:18 PM)Vox Clamantis Wrote: [ -> ]And I doubt that most of them are going around telling "everyone they meet" that they are homosexuals. It's the kind of thing that comes up. "So, you have a girlfriend?" "No, no I don't." "Really? I know this girl you might really like, and she --- " "Um, I'm gay." But even if they were to announce it often or to "everyone they meet," it's no different in my eyes than other "open book" types talking about their lives.

I'm the one that used the term "gay" and Mac was quoting me.  I used the term because my post was a response to yours which is contained above.  You have used the term "SSA" quite often but you also commonly use "homosexual" as a synonym and seemed to have indicated above that gay is a synonym for homosexual as well.

No one in this entire thread has implied that an SSA person cannot be chaste but rather, have stated that if they are chaste (or used to commit sodomy but have reformed), they should not be publicly labeled as SSA, homosexual or gay.  If people would stop assuming that accusations of sin are hidden between lines then we might get somewhere with this conversation.

The term SSA itself is less problematic than homosexual, gay or lesbian because it's not commonly used by groups pushing sodomy as a lifestyle.  Therefore Catholics have far greater control over public perception of the term than they do with the others.  However, the quote of yours above indicates that you will occasionally use the other terms as synonyms because in theory, they can mean the same thing.  However, as soon as you say that a chaste person who refuses to succumb to temptation is homosexual in a public setting people are likely to form an immediate impression and won't give you time to whip out Father Hardon's book to explain the fine distinctions.  In such a case scandal is given either by giving the false impression that Catholics support homosexual lifestyles or by letting people think that a virtuous person is committing a terrible sin.  I don't recommend any attempt to beat CNN, Hollywood, the New York Times and Obama in a battle over the definition of the word "homosexual".  If you do not use the terms "homosexual" and "gay" when speaking of SSA in public then excellent, but please be careful not to use them as synonyms when debating here otherwise I will mistakenly assume otherwise.

You say the media campaign isn't working with the people in your area but I say you live in Indiana which is a remarkably conservative state and that being a Traditional Catholic, you probably hang out with a disproportionate number of people that share your view on such matters.  Over here by Chicago, things are significantly worse.  Plus, according to the polls (assuming they are accurate) around 50% of the US population supports same-sex "marriage" and that indicates they have swallowed the propaganda.  With schools being the way they are those numbers will only grow worse in the near future.

You are missing the point Vox.  If a person is chaste then why continue to call them SSA or homosexual or gay or whatever.  Again a chaste person is a chaste person and a reformed sinner is a reformed sinner.

Same thing for a reformed womanizer or a reformed adulterer.  If a reformed womanizer does not fall into mortal sin with impure thoughts for more than a fleeting second when he looks at a good looking woman then he's not a womanizer any more.  If you still call a reformed womanizer a womanizer, you have succeeded in smearing their reputation regardless of your intention.  Why is it different for any other reformed sinner.

It should be noted that chaste goes beyond just being celibate, it deals with both thought and action.  The words "chaste" and "chastity" stem from the Latin adjective castus meaning "pure".  We all have our own crosses to bare.
Excuse me for butting in, I apologize because  I haven't been following the thread but I have to share this. Really good. God's timing, I stumbled on this blog a day after I found out some young person in my extended family wants a sex change operation, and many of my extended family is supporting that decision.... I stuck this link up on my facebook page thinking perhaps it would be of use to some of my loved ones. I thought that if it hasn't been shared yet, maybe it would help someone here, too.


http://www.josephsciambra.com/search?updated-min=2013-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&updated-max=2014-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&max-results=50
These are truly sad times. We will be seeing more youth claiming that they are "transgender" because they are being indoctrinated into the gender theory ideology that tells them they were born in the wrong bodies and convinces them to take opposite sex hormones and have their body parts cut off. This is an ideology that's gone global. I wish this were just the musings of a conspiracy theorist but it's really happening and kids are the targets of this latest sick scourge. They're being told they were "assigned" a sex at birth but they really aren't that sex at all - God made a mistake don't you know - they're really whatever "gender" they feel like they are.

An SSPX priest just wrote an article entitled "God Made Them Male and Female: Or Did He?" in the Feb. 2013 edition at sspx.org exposing this destructive fad. A local diocesan priest recently said he's seeing an "epidemic" of parents coming to him for advice because their child said they are "transgender".

If this horror that's making itself known isn't of the Devil I don't know what is.
Wait, we can't call them gay? My friends would be very surprised that they're not gay, even though they're chaste.  ???

Actually, I don't call myself "straight", even though I am a woman with a male husband, and am attracted to him. Before him, I had simply called myself "asexual" (if I responded at all) when queried why I wouldn't be interested in a date. My daughter, strangely, has the same affliction of mind, as did my mother, and my grandmother. We've all been called "lesbos" (literally) at some point in our lives. Huh.

But I'll freely admit, while I was Catholic then too, my "sexual identification" wasn't about my Faith — I simply didn't care for anyone sexually. At all. Not out of a sense of holiness (unfortunately), but just, that's how I rolled. I suppose I'm disordered, too, since I'm not attracted to men or women or children, &c. I'm not a prude, but ...no sexual identification whatsoever. I have a disorder, for real though.

(See how good this thread is?! Not that I'll concern myself overly with my disorder since I appear to be "straight", but to have discerned that I do indeed have a disorder is good for the soul! —except now I worry that maybe God gave me an easy affliction because He knew I wasn't strong enough to bear a harder one, like gay/SSA/whatever the right terminology is.)

I still strongly feel that my gay friends who try to shed strong attractions to others (male or female) do well at Adoration and family picnics. I find my friends to be very holy; fun to be around; helpful. I like them. (But they do stay away from the LGBTQA+ political fray, though.) They correct me when I curse like a sailor! (Another affliction of mine.)
(03-10-2013, 05:05 PM)FaithfulCatholic Wrote: [ -> ]These are truly sad times. We will be seeing more youth claiming that they are "transgender" because they are being indoctrinated into the gender theory ideology that tells them they were born in the wrong bodies and convinces them to take opposite sex hormones and have their body parts cut off. This is an ideology that's gone global. I wish this were just the musings of a conspiracy theorist but it's really happening and kids are the targets of this latest sick scourge. They're being told they were "assigned" a sex at birth but they really aren't that sex at all - God made a mistake don't you know - they're really whatever "gender" they feel like they are.

An SSPX priest just wrote an article entitled "God Made Them Male and Female: Or Did He?" in the Feb. 2013 edition at sspx.org exposing this destructive fad. A local diocesan priest recently said he's seeing an "epidemic" of parents coming to him for advice because their child said they are "transgender".

If this horror that's making itself known isn't of the Devil I don't know what is.

I adore your post ♥ Many people have said I acted "too manly", or joked that my Dad wanted a boy so much that I got boy genes. (I don't look like a boy, at all.) But when I was growing up in the 80s/90s there simply was no such talk of gender reassignment surgeries; we just had drag queens. Surely if sex attractions (or lack thereof) is an issue, what even about chopping off or sewing on body parts, taking hormones, etc lies of the world. I feel these poor souls have been radically misled by the world, as it's perfectly normal to be a tomboy, or to hate your body at some point, and so forth.

Fortunately, my children haven't had any transgenders, though I've warned them about it. Thanks for the pointer to the 2/13 article, http://www.sspx.org/pastors_corner/pasto...and_female
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