(03-16-2013, 06:05 AM)Benno Wrote: [ -> ]I just had a read through where this headed and I just want to say a couple of things then I'll probably leave it alone.
I find it pretty hard to swallow being called (collectively or by inference) a "hater" and whatnot just because I don't like the homosexual lobby that is a very real problem in the Church and because I don't think it's good to discuss SSA issues on a public forum. I also don't like the implication that I started this thread with the intention of gay-bashing or something. Some people here "protest too much" because of the emotional/ personal aspects of struggling with an attraction to a particular sin.
In your first post which started this thread, you wrote about a real problem in the Church and then went on to say:
Quote:I also think that homosexuality is one of the worst evils possible. I'm not surprised that "the world" celebrates it these days, but I can't for the life of me understand why Catholics (even trad ones) seem to think it's some kind of complex issue that needs sympathy and discussion etc.
Nobody brought a new subject to this thread. You introduced it in the OP when you made that comment. It sounded to me like you were denying or at least misunderstanding Church teaching, which is
Quote:CCC 2358 - The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
I do not struggle with an attraction to that particular sin but I tend to protest when I see people denying Church teaching. If you cannot understand why people with SSA must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity, then you clearly do need to discuss it with people who can explain this to you.
Here is a blog post by a heterosexual woman working on this aspect of Church teaching. Perhaps you will find it helpful:
http://www.firstthings.com/onthesquare/2...rder-of-me
Quote:As someone who struggles with food—too often losing the battle and gaining the weight—I found that something rang true in that layman’s response. Whether I act on my food urges or not, they are always with me, and the gluttony in which they find release is certainly as detrimental to my soul as any “sin against chastity.”
I am “intrinsically disordered” when it comes to food, and it doesn’t really matter how I became so. Whether it is due to a genetic pre-disposition, or a habit of psychological buffering—or some combination of nature and nurture—the fact remains that I am disordered, and I must deal with it. Every day. Sometimes hour by hour, sometimes minute by tempted minute.
Up to now I have done a very poor job of dealing with it, largely because until that moment of clarity, I had not recognized the disorder. Like most same-sex attracted persons, I had thought of my battles and defeats in terms of weakness, shame; discipline, programming, and willpower; there was no connection to the transcendent, so how could I ever transcend myself?
This blogger has an insight that helps her to understand that people with SSA are not really so very different from herself. We are all damaged by original sin. I also draw your attention to the 4th comment down, by sheepcat (whom I know in real life - I just saw him last week at the TLM) which makes an important clarification to her post.
(03-16-2013, 06:05 AM)Benno Wrote: [ -> ]I think an opportunity to realistically and seriously discuss a real threat to the heart of the Church has been passed over in favour of yet another sort of "self-help" thread. Personally, I don't really like seeing threads about struggles with masturbation etc either. It's not because I hate people who do it, but because I think it's imprudent to air such things on a public forum, especially when jokes start being made etc. (Eg one poster said something jokingly about being attracted to a bloke on TV or something. Sorry to sound like a puritan, which I certainly ain't, but is that kind of thing really prudent when the issue is so serious?)
I'm sorry if I've upset some by saying things the wrong way or because this is a topic I can get pretty uncompromising/ insensitive about. I just can't help feeling that the way culture is going and the way the Church has been influenced by active homosexuals (or supporters or enablers or even just tolerators) among the clergy, this issue needs some serious confrontation, and I fail to see how emphasizing the importance of distinguishing between temptation and sin etc is really doing much for anyone. Of course there's a difference, of course having SSA doesn't make someone a sinner or a bad Catholic... duh... but there's a reason why Benedict highlighted the same issues that I have tried to raise in this thread. And I feel very deeply that a can of worms has finally been opened and to some extent the future of the Church (on the ground level) is at stake.
It is precisely because the topic is important that we must discuss it with as much clarity as we can possibly bring to it. Conflating a bunch of different things together is not going to lead to useful actions. We have to make distinctions a be very clear which thing we are talking about. There is the homosexual tendency or attraction, also called SSA. These are not sins, but rather opportunities for Grace. Personally, I am greatly encouraged to strive for virtue when I hear about people with SSA who answer the Church's call to chastity. So I am very grateful for those who post to this forum about this.
SSA which is not sinful is very different from homosexual actions which are gravely sinful. Because we are living in a culture which denies that these actions are sinful, it is useful to thoroughly understand and to be able to explain Church teaching about this.
This is different from homosexual activism which is directed at creating political and social acceptance for sinful homosexual activity. It too is a sin.This activism is attempting to stamp out any opposition to homosexual activity and is opposed to the Church herself.
This is different yet again from the problem of men with SSA in the priesthood, although there is some overlap when these men are homosexual activists.
We cannot simply go with gut reactions of anger and disgust. We must control our emotions in order to bring clear thinking and clear speaking to addressing these very serious problems. Jumbling all these different things together can only be an obstacle to taking the correct actions.