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Glad you enjoy it.  I think your attitude is in fact modernist, but you can disagree.  I'm sure we'll both enjoy studying the history of medieval support groups together, and the long history of public gatherings of homosexuals in the history of the Church.  How shall we begin?
Quote:That being said, I agree with you about homosexuality in general. It's not like every other sin. In a lot of ways it's worse.

Way to play internet.  It's not an exclusively private vice, it is interactive with the salvation of other individuals if practiced.  So are some other serious sins.  You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake, snowflake.
(03-07-2013, 01:56 PM)Burdensome1 Wrote: [ -> ]
Quote:That being said, I agree with you about homosexuality in general. It's not like every other sin. In a lot of ways it's worse.

Way to play internet.  It's not an exclusively private vice, it is interactive with the salvation of other individuals if practiced.  So are some other serious sins.  You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake, snowflake.
I agree with you there sweetie pie.
(03-07-2013, 01:54 PM)Burdensome1 Wrote: [ -> ]Glad you enjoy it.  I think your attitude is in fact modernist, but you can disagree.  I'm sure we'll both enjoy studying the history of medieval support groups together, and the long history of public gatherings of homosexuals in the history of the Church.  How shall we begin?
Oh, I see. You think that applying any new knowledge makes one a modernist.


Quote:Oh, I see. You think that applying any new knowledge makes one a modernist.



Nope, applying non-Catholic principles to the religion because they are new makes one modernist....the point of our entire debate.  Don't be tiresome. 

(03-07-2013, 01:58 PM)Papist Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-07-2013, 01:54 PM)Burdensome1 Wrote: [ -> ]Glad you enjoy it.  I think your attitude is in fact modernist, but you can disagree.  I'm sure we'll both enjoy studying the history of medieval support groups together, and the long history of public gatherings of homosexuals in the history of the Church.  How shall we begin?
Oh, I see. You think that applying any new knowledge makes one a modernist.

There are no new heresies. There are no new sins under the sun. Perhaps we should look at how St Peter Damien dealt with the issue and see if anything is useful...
(03-07-2013, 02:03 PM)Burdensome1 Wrote: [ -> ]

Quote:Oh, I see. You think that applying any new knowledge makes one a modernist.



Nope, applying non-Catholic principles to the religion because they are new makes one modernist....the point of our entire debate.  Don't be tiresome. 
Well amigo, I'm not sure what is non-Catholic about offering help to those who need it. Seems to me that it is a very Catholic thing to do. Personally, I would never attend a "support group" for a sin, unless that support group was about kicking my butt, but I don't know what kind of help other people need. If Courage helps people to not engage in Sodomy, then that's fantastic.
And Plato wanted co-ed naked calisthentics every morning for what he thought were some very solid reasons. 

And I say no, seems like a bad idea. 

But hey, if forming a network by which all of the struggling Catholic homosexuals in a diocese can meet and greet each other seems like a good idea to you, let's do it.  And I'll just go outside for some nude jumping jacks while I'm at it.
(03-07-2013, 02:08 PM)Burdensome1 Wrote: [ -> ]And Plato wanted co-ed naked calisthentics every morning for what he thought were some very solid reasons. 

And I say no, seems like a bad idea. 

But hey, if forming a network by which all of the struggling Catholic homosexuals in a diocese can meet and greet each other seems like a good idea to you, let's do it.  And I'll just go outside for some nude jumping jacks while I'm at it.
I'm not into nude jumping jacks with other guys. If this is serious temptation for you, I can recommend a group that might help you overcome such a sin:
http://couragerc.net
(03-07-2013, 02:04 PM)catquilt Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-07-2013, 01:58 PM)Papist Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-07-2013, 01:54 PM)Burdensome1 Wrote: [ -> ]Glad you enjoy it.  I think your attitude is in fact modernist, but you can disagree.  I'm sure we'll both enjoy studying the history of medieval support groups together, and the long history of public gatherings of homosexuals in the history of the Church.  How shall we begin?
Oh, I see. You think that applying any new knowledge makes one a modernist.

There are no new heresies. There are no new sins under the sun. Perhaps we should look at how St Peter Damien dealt with the issue and see if anything is useful...

Okay.  St Peter Damien and more.

Source - Catholic Quotations
http://catholicquotations.blogspot.ca/20...ality.html

Quote: On Homosexuality...
“Just as Saint Basil establishes that those who incur sins [against nature should be subjected not only to a hard penance but a public one, and Pope Siricius prohibits penitents from entering clerical orders, one can clearly deduce that he who corrupts himself with a man through the ignominious squalor of a filthy union does not deserve to exercise ecclesiastical functions, since those who were formerly given to vices … become unfit to administer the Sacraments.”
-Saint Peter Damian, Liber Gomorrhianus [Book of Gomorrha], addressed to Pope Leo IX in the year 1051 (op. cit., cols. 174f)

“This vice strives to destroy the walls of one’s heavenly motherland and rebuild those of devastated Sodom. Indeed, it violates temperance, kills purity, stifles chastity and annihilates virginity ... with the sword of a most infamous union. It infects, stains and pollutes everything; it leaves nothing pure, there is nothing but filth ... This vice expels one from the choir of the ecclesiastical host and obliges one to join the energumens and those who work in league with the devil; it separates the soul from God and links it with the demons. This most pestiferous queen of the Sodomites [which is homosexuality] makes those who obey her tyrannical laws repugnant to men and hateful to God ... It humiliates at church, condemns at court, defiles in secret, dishonors in public, gnaws at the person’s conscience like a worm and burns his flesh like fire. The miserable flesh burns with the fire of lust, the cold intelligence trembles under the rancor of suspicion, and the unfortunate man’s heart is possessed by hellish chaos, and his pains of conscience are as great as the tortures in punishment he will suffer ... Indeed, this scourge destroys the foundations of faith, weakens the force of hope, dissipates the bonds of charity, annihilates justice, undermines fortitude, ... and dulls the edge of prudence.... “What else shall I say? It expels all the forces of virtue from the temple of the human heart and, pulling the door from its hinges, introduces into it all the barbarity of vice ... In effect, the one whom ... this atrocious beast [of homosexuality] has swallowed down its bloody throat is prevented, by the weight of his chains, from practicing all good works and is precipitated into the very abysses of its uttermost wickedness. Thus, as soon as someone has fallen into this chasm of extreme perdition, he is exiled from the heavenly motherland, separated from the Body of Christ, confounded by the authority of the whole Church, condemned by the judgment of all the Holy Fathers, despised by men on earth, and reproved by the society of heavenly citizens. He creates for himself an earth of iron and a sky of bronze ... He cannot be happy while he lives nor have hope when he dies, because in life he is obliged to suffer the ignominy of men’s derision and later, the torment of eternal condemnation”
-Saint Peter Damian (Liber Gomorrhianus, in PL 145, col. 159-178 ).

“Sins against nature, therefore, like the sin of Sodom, are abominable and deserve punishment whenever and wherever they are committed. If all nations committed them, all alike would be held guilty of the same charge in God’s law, for our Maker did not prescribe that we should use each other in this way. In fact, the relationship that we ought to have with God is itself violated when our nature, of which He is Author, is desecrated by perverted lust.....Your punishments are for sins which men commit against themselves, because, although they sin against You, they do wrong in their own souls and their malice is self-betrayed. They corrupt and pervert their own nature, which You made and for which You shaped the rules, either by making wrong use of the things which You allow, or by becoming inflamed with passion to make unnatural use of things which You do not allow” (Rom. 1:26).
-Saint Augustine of Hippo - Bishop, Father, and Doctor of the Church (Confessions, Book III, chap. 8 )

“All passions are dishonorable, for the soul is even more prejudiced and degraded by sin than is the body by disease; but the worst of all passions is lust between men…. The sins against nature are more difficult and less rewarding, since true pleasure is only the one according to nature. But when God abandons a man, everything is turned upside down! Therefore, not only are their passions [of the homosexuals] satanic, but their lives are diabolic….. So I say to you that these are even worse than murderers, and that it would be better to die than to live in such dishonor. A murderer only separates the soul from the body, whereas these destroy the soul inside the body….. There is nothing, absolutely nothing more mad or damaging than this perversity.”
-Saint John Chrysostom - Bishop, Father, and Doctor of the Church (In Epistulam ad Romanos IV, in J. McNeill, op. cit., pp. 89-90)

“Brimstone calls to mind the foul odors of the flesh, as Sacred Scripture itself confirms when it speaks of the rain of fire and brimstone poured by the Lord upon Sodom. He had decided to punish in it the crimes of the flesh, and the very type of punishment emphasized the shame of that crime, since brimstone exhales stench and fire burns. It was, therefore, just that the sodomites, burning with perverse desires that originated from the foul odor of flesh, should perish at the same time by fire and brimstone so that through this just chastisement they might realize the evil perpetrated under the impulse of a perverse desire.”
-Pope Saint Gregory the Great, Father and Doctor of the Church (Commento morale a Giobbe, XIV, 23, vol. II, p. 371, Ibid., p. 7)

"(Saint Albert the Great gives four reasons why he considers homosexual acts as the most detestable ones:) They are born from an ardent frenzy; they are disgustingly foul; those who become addicted to them are seldom freed from that vice; they are as contagious as disease, passing quickly from one person to another.
-Saint Albert the Great, Doctor of the Church (In Evangelium Lucae XVII, 29, in J. McNeill, op. cit., p. 95)

“However, they are called passions of ignominy because they are not worthy of being named, according to that passage in Ephesians (5:12): ‘For the things that are done by them in secret, it is a shame even to speak of.’ For if the sins of the flesh are commonly censurable because they lead man to that which is bestial in him, much more so is the sin against nature, by which man debases himself lower than even his animal nature.”
-Saint Thomas Aquinas, Doctor of the Church (Super Epistulas Sancti Pauli Ad Romanum I, 26, pp. 27f)

"(Saint Bonaventure, speaking in a sermon at the church of Saint Mary of Portiuncula about the miracles that took place simultaneously with the birth of our Lord Jesus Christ, narrates this:) “Seventh prodigy: All sodomites—men and women—died all over the earth, as Saint Jerome said in his commentary on the psalm ‘The light was born for the just.’ This made it clear that He was born to reform nature and promote chastity.”
-Saint Bonaventure (Sermon XXI—In Nativitate Domini, in Catolicismo (Campos/Sao Paulo), December 1987, p. 3; F. Bernardei, op. cit., p. 11)

“No sin has greater power over the soul than the one of cursed sodomy, which was always detested by all those who lived according to God….. Such passion for undue forms borders on madness. This vice disturbs the intellect, breaks an elevated and generous state of soul, drags great thoughts to petty ones, makes [men] pusillanimous and irascible, obstinate and hardened, servilely soft and incapable of anything. Furthermore, the will, being agitated by the insatiable drive for pleasure, no longer follows reason, but furor…. Someone who lived practicing the vice of sodomy will suffer more pains in Hell than any one else, because this is the worst sin that there is.”
-Saint Bernardine of Siena (Predica XXXIX, in Le prediche volgari (Milan: Rizzoli, 1936), pp. 869ff., 915, in F. Bernadei, op. cit., pp. 11f)
 
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