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On a number of occasions I have seen the term Jansenist erroneously used to describe Traditional Catholics. Usually it is either in the context of some in tradition labeling the more "rad-trad" types as this, or it is conservative Catholics using it for traditionalists in general.

Jansenism is a belief system that teaches a false conception of how God's grace is applied. I never see this heresy being repated by those who are labled as "Jansenists." It makes even less sense when you realize that the Jansenist were very much in favor of abolishing the traditions of the church, venacularizing the liturgy, and making it much simpler.

So how did this term come in to use? Is it simply a misdirected slur used by people not intelligent enough to consider what they are saying? Or is there some logic behind it?
Well, Jansenism proceeds chiefly from a distorted view of predestination, but when you see the term 'hurled' at trads, they're more referring to the symptoms of it.  I have composed a thread (really, it's just a quick copy and paste job from Denzinger) detailing the condemned errors of the Jansenists.  I think most of the time when the term is used, it is inaccurately applied, though it can certainly be applicable.  Usually when one insists that their personal rigorism must be followed by others. 

Here is a link to that thread: http://www.suscipedomine.com/forum/index...pic=1488.0
(03-15-2013, 02:35 PM)Mithrandylan Wrote: [ -> ]Well, Jansenism proceeds chiefly from a distorted view of predestination, but when you see the term 'hurled' at trads, they're more referring to the symptoms of it.  I have composed a thread (really, it's just a quick copy and paste job from Denzinger) detailing the condemned errors of the Jansenists.  I think most of the time when the term is used, it is inaccurately applied, though it can certainly be applicable.  Usually when one insists that their personal rigorism must be followed by others. 

Here is a link to that thread: http://www.suscipedomine.com/forum/index...pic=1488.0

Hmm, yeah it seems to me that they often really mean "rigorist." I just find it amusing, since it was the Jansenists who insisted that the Mass should be in the vernacular, that the canon should be read allowed, that the minor orders be suppressed etc.
I don't really get this either, other than the hurler maybe considering it an inappropriately rigorist response to laxity or an overly pessimistic view of human nature.

On the other hand, there is this site:
http://www.romancatholicism.org/jansenis...enists.htm
(03-15-2013, 02:30 PM)DoktorDespot Wrote: [ -> ]On a number of occasions I have seen the term Jansenist erroneously used to describe Traditional Catholics. Usually it is either in the context of some in tradition labeling the more "rad-trad" types as this, or it is conservative Catholics using it for traditionalists in general.

Jansenism is a belief system that teaches a false conception of how God's grace is applied. I never see this heresy being repated by those who are labled as "Jansenists." It makes even less sense when you realize that the Jansenist were very much in favor of abolishing the traditions of the church, venacularizing the liturgy, and making it much simpler.

So how did this term come in to use? Is it simply a misdirected slur used by people not intelligent enough to consider what they are saying? Or is there some logic behind it?

The Jensenists were the Catholic counterpart to puritans.  The French Huguenots were noticeable for the Calvinist simplicity in which they lived.  The Jensenists, consciously or not, felt that that Catholics should live equally severely so as not to appear unseemly to their Protestant neighbors.  The Church correctly saw both the extreme piety of the Calvinists and the efforts of the Jensenists as a kind of religious rivalry, the kind criticised by Christ in the Gospel for Ash Wednesday.  

Traditionalists are not competing against Calvinists.  We predate them.  We're not competing against modernists.  We predate them, also.  However, those who oppose traditionalism strive to characterize it like something else, in order to justify dismissing it.  Because once traditionalism's opponents admit the uniqueness of the thing, they must deal with it uniquely.  And that, my friend, they do not wish to do.  
(03-15-2013, 02:42 PM)DoktorDespot Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-15-2013, 02:35 PM)Mithrandylan Wrote: [ -> ]Well, Jansenism proceeds chiefly from a distorted view of predestination, but when you see the term 'hurled' at trads, they're more referring to the symptoms of it.  I have composed a thread (really, it's just a quick copy and paste job from Denzinger) detailing the condemned errors of the Jansenists.  I think most of the time when the term is used, it is inaccurately applied, though it can certainly be applicable.  Usually when one insists that their personal rigorism must be followed by others. 

Here is a link to that thread: http://www.suscipedomine.com/forum/index...pic=1488.0

Hmm, yeah it seems to me that they often really mean "rigorist." I just find it amusing, since it was the Jansenists who insisted that the Mass should be in the vernacular, that the canon should be read allowed, that the minor orders be suppressed etc.

Well, it is interesting.  I believe that when this charge is made, it's in reference to puritanical tendencies of some traditional Catholics.  That being said, as I mentioned in the link I posted, denying oneself alcohol and worldly pleasures is perfectly Catholic.  The only problem comes about when one believes that these things are evil in themselves. 
The term is probably misused in most cases, and it is often used against anyone who takes morality seriously, but I think the accusation is sometimes made because the extreme extrinsicism of some trads can often take on a rather "Jansenistic" tone. In those cases, there might be some truth to it.
I've seen the term "Jansenist" used against trad Catholics who will never dance, who don't drink(yes, they exist), and are generally rigorists about every aspect of life. It rarely has anything to do with the heresy of Jansenism per se.
(03-15-2013, 03:30 PM)Larry Wrote: [ -> ]I've seen the term "Jansenist" used against trad Catholics who will never dance, who don't drink(yes, they exist), and are generally rigorists about every aspect of life. It rarely has anything to do with the heresy of Jansenism per se.

Ha!  They are not like any traditionalists I know!  LOL
(03-15-2013, 03:36 PM)Warrenton Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-15-2013, 03:30 PM)Larry Wrote: [ -> ]I've seen the term "Jansenist" used against trad Catholics who will never dance, who don't drink(yes, they exist), and are generally rigorists about every aspect of life. It rarely has anything to do with the heresy of Jansenism per se.

Ha!  They are not like any traditionalists I know!  LOL

It was years ago, but I spent lots of time in St. Mary's Kansas, and there were a few cliques that were excessively rigorist. Luckily the Trads I'm friendly with now are all heavy drinkers.  LOL
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