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(03-25-2013, 10:16 PM)US_Soldier Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-25-2013, 10:13 PM)Tim Wrote: [ -> ]Our Lady of All Nations' messages have not been okayed. Here's the bit from EWTN.

http://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/our_l...ations.htm

Our Lady of Akita and the messages are approved. Here's the bit from EWTN.

http://www.ewtn.com/library/mary/akita.htm

tim

So what exactly does approved mean? How long until Our Lady of Akita appears here: http://www.fisheaters.com/apparitions.html

FOR THE RECORD: I do not object to anything that Our Lady of Akita said. I like what she said. I only take issue with the fact that the statue which came to life and cried was a the statue of The Lady of Nations.

Find someone that wants to defend the apparition. I gave you what is approved and what is not. As Dr Bombay can attest I'm a Fatimaista, and though I take the message from Akita as a back up to Fatima, if we don't get the Consecration of Russia soon, we'll see that fire fall from the sky, I'm no expert.

tim
(03-25-2013, 10:22 PM)US_Soldier Wrote: [ -> ]I noticed under the Akita link at the very bottom it said this:

"Despite claims that Cardinal Ratzinger gave definitive approval to Akita in 1988, no ecclesiastical decree appears to exist, as certainly would in such a case. However, some individuals, such as former Ambassador of the Phillipines to the Holy See, Mr. Howard Dee, have stated that they were given private assurances by Cardinal Ratzinger of the authenticity of Akita. In any case, in keeping with the current norms, given the absence of a repudiation of Bp. Ito's decision by his successors, or by higher authority, the events of Akita continue to have ecclesiastical approval."

From what I've read it is approved by a local bishop but that isn't the same as an approval status that apparitions like Fatima enjoys.

The plot thickens.
(03-25-2013, 10:22 PM)Tim Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-25-2013, 10:16 PM)US_Soldier Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-25-2013, 10:13 PM)Tim Wrote: [ -> ]Our Lady of All Nations' messages have not been okayed. Here's the bit from EWTN.

http://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/our_l...ations.htm

Our Lady of Akita and the messages are approved. Here's the bit from EWTN.

http://www.ewtn.com/library/mary/akita.htm

tim

So what exactly does approved mean? How long until Our Lady of Akita appears here: http://www.fisheaters.com/apparitions.html

FOR THE RECORD: I do not object to anything that Our Lady of Akita said. I like what she said. I only take issue with the fact that the statue which came to life and cried was a the statue of The Lady of Nations.

Find someone that wants to defend the apparition. I gave you what is approved and what is not. As Dr Bombay can attest I'm a Fatimaista, and though I take the message from Akita as a back up to Fatima, if we don't get the Consecration of Russia soon, we'll see that fire fall from the sky, I'm no expert.

tim

Thanks for your time Sir.  :tiphat:
(03-25-2013, 10:04 PM)US_Soldier Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-25-2013, 09:47 PM)DrBombay Wrote: [ -> ]Our Lady of All Nations and Akita have both been approved by the Church. 

From my understanding this isn't exactly true. A few clergymen saying positive things about an apparition doesn't make it approved by the Church. Even Medjugorje had the praise of clergy, did it not?

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/a...e_vatican/

I always wondered about Our Lady of All Nations.  Good scoop US_Soldier.  Dr. Mark Miravalle, a professor of theology at Franciscan University of Steubenville was pushing this "apparition" a while back and looks like he still was five years after this Catholic News Agency article reported that members of the apostolate were excommunicated.  The most recent video about it by Miravalle that I found is dated May 16, 2012.  I questioned it because Miravalle was claiming that the Consecration of Russia was already done.  Our Lady of All Nations started in 1945 with Ida Peerdeman in Amsterdam, the Netherlands.  It also looks like the EWTN article about Our Lady of All Nations is outdated by about seven years as it just says "who once was Mary" is to be left out of the prayer of the Lady of All Nations.

As far as I know Our Lady of Akita is approved.  It certainly corresponds to other approved apparitions. 
(03-25-2013, 10:22 PM)US_Soldier Wrote: [ -> ]I noticed under the Akita link at the very bottom it said this:

"Despite claims that Cardinal Ratzinger gave definitive approval to Akita in 1988, no ecclesiastical decree appears to exist, as certainly would in such a case. However, some individuals, such as former Ambassador of the Phillipines to the Holy See, Mr. Howard Dee, have stated that they were given private assurances by Cardinal Ratzinger of the authenticity of Akita. In any case, in keeping with the current norms, given the absence of a repudiation of Bp. Ito's decision by his successors, or by higher authority, the events of Akita continue to have ecclesiastical approval."

From what I've read it is approved by a local bishop but that isn't the same as an approval status that apparitions like Fatima enjoys.

For an apparition to be approved, it must be approved by the local bishop.  That's all it needs.  Fatima is well received for an apparition. 

As for Our Lady of All Nations, I haven't read about that apparition or the messages.  But you can bet your bottom dollar I will now. 

I believe that the Akita messages were real. 

Medjugorje, on the other hand, is insane.  I have copious amounts of material to point you towards if you want something to read about the matter. 

Good post, though. 

So...the statue that cried blood, the statue from which the messages came--that came from an Our Lady of All Nations statue in Japan?  You're sure it's a statue of Our Lady of All Nations?
(03-25-2013, 10:22 PM)US_Soldier Wrote: [ -> ]I noticed under the Akita link at the very bottom it said this:

"Despite claims that Cardinal Ratzinger gave definitive approval to Akita in 1988, no ecclesiastical decree appears to exist, as certainly would in such a case. However, some individuals, such as former Ambassador of the Phillipines to the Holy See, Mr. Howard Dee, have stated that they were given private assurances by Cardinal Ratzinger of the authenticity of Akita. In any case, in keeping with the current norms, given the absence of a repudiation of Bp. Ito's decision by his successors, or by higher authority, the events of Akita continue to have ecclesiastical approval."

From what I've read it is approved by a local bishop but that isn't the same as an approval status that apparitions like Fatima enjoys.


Soldier,
You didn't quote the exact words:
Card. Ratzinger said to Mr Howard Dee that Akita's and Fatima's apparitions are "essentially the same"
Since Mr Dee had the reputation to be a trustworthy,  pious and holy man, and since Card. Ratzinger knew the exact content of the 3rd Secret of Fatima, these words are the best autenthication one may hope for Akita by the Church.
In addition, one may wonder how to match what was revealed of the 3rd Secret by the Vatican in 2000 with some parts of the Akita's messages. For example : "Fire will fall from Heaven and consume many nations" or "cardinals against cardinal, bishops against bishops".

You may draw the conclusion you want...
I apologize if I was overly aggressive in my initial post last night.

(03-26-2013, 01:58 AM)LaramieHirsch Wrote: [ -> ]So...the statue that cried blood, the statue from which the messages came--that came from an Our Lady of All Nations statue in Japan?  You're sure it's a statue of Our Lady of All Nations?

Pretty positive. Here is The Lady of All Nations:

http://alchemical-weddings.com/wp-conten...ations.jpg

(note: I have no idea what that website is, I just google imaged the statue, which can be found at a plethora of sites)

This is the statue at Akita:

http://www.miraclehunter.com/marian_appa...ita_04.jpg

It is the exact same. The Akita statue is The Lady of All Nations. So I'm not exactly sure what to make of Akita.

Allow me to point out that even if an apparition is false, it does not mean that everything contained in it is false. The father of lies isn't stupid. He can say 999 truths and 1 lie, just to make that 1 lie seem all the more believable. Or he can tell 999 lies and 1 truth, just to make us doubt that 1 truth. He knows all that God has said and all that Our Lady has said. Surely he will try to pervert one half of all that has been said and make us doubt the other half.

So hopefully somebody more knowledgeable than me can shed some light on this. I really really wanted to believe in Akita, but the fact that it is a statue of The Lady of All Nations is really holding me back. For now I will just take a position of skepticism.

(03-26-2013, 05:56 AM)maso Wrote: [ -> ]Soldier,
You didn't quote the exact words:
Card. Ratzinger said to Mr Howard Dee that Akita's and Fatima's apparitions are "essentially the same"
Since Mr Dee had the reputation to be a trustworthy,  pious and holy man, and since Card. Ratzinger knew the exact content of the 3rd Secret of Fatima, these words are the best autenthication one may hope for Akita by the Church.
In addition, one may wonder how to match what was revealed of the 3rd Secret by the Vatican in 2000 with some parts of the Akita's messages. For example : "Fire will fall from Heaven and consume many nations" or "cardinals against cardinal, bishops against bishops".

You may draw the conclusion you want...

My apologies sir, I simply copied and pasted the words from the EWTN link exactly as they were there.
I must say I'm disappointed.  I thought the apparitionists would put up more of a fight, with jowl shuddering outrage and everything.  No dice. 

Ah well.  Somebody will say something kooky about something sometime and the rivers will run with blood, etc.  I look forward to that day.
The statue of Our Lady in Akita was carved by a Shinto or Buddhist or something like that Japanese artist.

tim
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