FishEaters Traditional Catholic Forums

Full Version: Russian Orthodox
You're currently viewing a stripped down version of our content. View the full version with proper formatting.
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
This is what the Russian Orthodox Patriarch told Putin in a audience he had with him.
This sounds a little Catholic.
=============================================
I particularly note how the dialogue between the state and the Church has developed over this time. This dialogue has helped us to resolve many issues that have a direct bearing on the lives of the people you spoke of just now.

This dialogue is not about abstract matters after all, but is about what directly concerns people’s lives: the state of their souls and level of their morals. Most important of all is that quality of life cannot be measured in material terms only, but has a spiritual dimension too.

I think that the church-state relations in Russia show that the Church can carry out its service in full and support our people in their spiritual life, help them materially too where needed through charity work and through care for young people, people with disabilities, senior citizens, and everyone in need of this kind of help and support.
It would be nice if Kyrill wasn't an anti-Catholic, but considering he became a Bishop in '84 (seven years before the fall of the USSR) he had to have been fully vetted and approved by the KGB before being elevated to the Episcopate.
(04-26-2013, 01:24 AM)jovan66102 Wrote: [ -> ]It would be nice if Kyrill wasn't an anti-Catholic, but considering he became a Bishop in '84 (seven years before the fall of the USSR) he had to have been fully vetted and approved by the KGB before being elevated to the Episcopate.

Not only was he vetted and approved by the Soviet hierarchy, but he was actually a KGB agent.

http://jesuschrist.ru/news/2005/1/26/7770#.UXom-rU8CuI

The Russian "Orthodox" Church is so far removed from God that it lacks any kind of moral authority.
(04-26-2013, 03:07 AM)Irish_Ivan Wrote: [ -> ]The Russian "Orthodox" Church is so far removed from God that it lacks any kind of moral authority.

I don't think that's fair. Can you explain this? I put my cards on the table: I am a bit of a Russophile, especially when it comes to the Orthodox Church. If truth didn't matter, my goodness I'd quickly become Russian Orthodox (or a Jew like those in Fiddler on the Roof!)
(04-26-2013, 03:39 AM)Felix E Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-26-2013, 03:07 AM)Irish_Ivan Wrote: [ -> ]The Russian "Orthodox" Church is so far removed from God that it lacks any kind of moral authority.

I don't think that's fair. Can you explain this? I put my cards on the table: I am a bit of a Russophile, especially when it comes to the Orthodox Church. If truth didn't matter, my goodness I'd quickly become Russian Orthodox (or a Jew like those in Fiddler on the Roof!)

I, too, am a Russophile (and a former Orthodox), but the fact remains that for 70+ years the ROC was hand in glove with the Communist Government and the KGB and its predecessors. As Irish Ivan pointed out, the current Patriarch was actually a KGB agent. All clerics during the Soviet regime had to be vetted and approved by the KGB. The last Patriarch independent of government control was Tikhon (canonised by the Orthodox) who died in 1925. The Patriarchal Throne then stood vacant until 1943 with government appointed vicars each called a locum tenens until Stalin restored the Patriarchate because he needed the support of the Church for the war effort. Since Patriarch Tikhon's death all Patriarchs have been, to one degree or another, government agents.
Sorry.  The Orthodox church still has a valid priesthood and is part of the one Holy, Catholic (universal), Apostolic Church.
(04-26-2013, 04:34 AM)jovan66102 Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-26-2013, 03:39 AM)Felix E Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-26-2013, 03:07 AM)Irish_Ivan Wrote: [ -> ]The Russian "Orthodox" Church is so far removed from God that it lacks any kind of moral authority.

I don't think that's fair. Can you explain this? I put my cards on the table: I am a bit of a Russophile, especially when it comes to the Orthodox Church. If truth didn't matter, my goodness I'd quickly become Russian Orthodox (or a Jew like those in Fiddler on the Roof!)

I, too, am a Russophile (and a former Orthodox), but the fact remains that for 70+ years the ROC was hand in glove with the Communist Government and the KGB and its predecessors. As Irish Ivan pointed out, the current Patriarch was actually a KGB agent. All clerics during the Soviet regime had to be vetted and approved by the KGB. The last Patriarch independent of government control was Tikhon (canonised by the Orthodox) who died in 1925. The Patriarchal Throne then stood vacant until 1943 with government appointed vicars each called a locum tenens until Stalin restored the Patriarchate because he needed the support of the Church for the war effort. Since Patriarch Tikhon's death all Patriarchs have been, to one degree or another, government agents.

Thanks. Yeah I knew all that (didn't know Kiril was a KGB agent though, that's news!) but I still don't see why the entire Church, according to that poster, is far removed from God? I don't consider them the true Church (of course) but I don't think that God despises them.
(04-26-2013, 03:39 AM)Felix E Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think that's fair. Can you explain this? I put my cards on the table: I am a bit of a Russophile, especially when it comes to the Orthodox Church. If truth didn't matter, my goodness I'd quickly become Russian Orthodox (or a Jew like those in Fiddler on the Roof!)

You're right, I was a bit harsh.  What I should've said is that the current hierarchy of the ROC is pretty far removed from God (all were either former KGB agents or at the very least failed to speak out against the evil of the USSR.)  There were many priests and bishops in the years during and immediately after the Revolution that chose to die for their faith rather than cooperate with the Bolsheviks. 
(04-26-2013, 04:34 AM)jovan66102 Wrote: [ -> ]I, too, am a Russophile (and a former Orthodox), but the fact remains that for 70+ years the ROC was hand in glove with the Communist Government and the KGB and its predecessors. As Irish Ivan pointed out, the current Patriarch was actually a KGB agent. All clerics during the Soviet regime had to be vetted and approved by the KGB. The last Patriarch independent of government control was Tikhon (canonised by the Orthodox) who died in 1925. The Patriarchal Throne then stood vacant until 1943 with government appointed vicars each called a locum tenens until Stalin restored the Patriarchate because he needed the support of the Church for the war effort. Since Patriarch Tikhon's death all Patriarchs have been, to one degree or another, government agents.

In case anybody here is wondering my antipathy towards the ROC is related to their treatment of the Eastern-rite Catholic churches throughout the years.  Many people believe that the confiscation of Catholic churches and monasteries and their transfer to the ROC started under the Bolsheviks, but in reality that's been going on since the days of the Tsars.  Pope Leo XIII had a spat with Tsar Nicolas II over his treatment of Catholics in the Russian Empire. 

It got a lot worse under Stalin, who basically liquidated the Ukrainian Greek-Catholic Church's hierarchy and confiscated all their properties.  When Gorbachev allowed the remaining hierarchy to return, the ROC refused to return the loot that Stalin granted them for their "patriotic" collaboration during WW2.  Mobs of angry Ukrainians decided to take matters into their own hands and forcibly evicted the Orthodox from those properties, and now Kirill is trying to play the victim because of that. 
KGB agent or not, conversion is possible.  Our Lady of Fatima!  :pray:
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8