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Ok, I have a couple questions and don't really know where to post them.

I have a commencement at secular University in a couple days. I'm feeling rather sick about the whole thing.

Question 1: Are you allowed to have a Catholic mass at a Protestant church? The catholic Campus Ministry is putting on a "Graduation Mass" in a protestant chapel. The whole thing just doesn't feel right to me, but that's probably mainly because I have little trust in this ministry. Regardless of the answer, I'm not going, as there's a perfectly good mass at a nearby Catholic Church that I'm going to instead, but if you can't have Catholic mass in a protestant building I'm going to be writing quite a few people.

Question 2: At commencement there is an "invocation of a higher power," which to me sounds like a polite way of saying "Satanic divination of false gods and evil spirits." What am I supposed to make of this? The only reason I'm even showing up to commencement is to make the old man happy, which is a childish reason I know.
Whoops. Looks like there's already a topic about my first question! Sorry about that. I should search next time  Blush

EDIT: After reading through the other topic I want to make a distinction here: The other topic did not have a Catholic Church to celebrate mass in. In my situation, there is a perfectly good Catholic Church literally 5 minutes away from this protestant chapel. For some stupid reason these people still insist on having their masses in places like the Interfaith Center and Protestant chapels rather than the actual Catholic Church.
US_Soldier Wrote:Question 2: At commencement there is an "invocation of a higher power," which to me sounds like a polite way of saying "Satanic divination of false gods and evil spirits." What am I supposed to make of this?

Unless you have actual evidence that the faculty are crypto-satanists, there is absolutely no rational reason to believe any such thing is even remotely taking place. The term "invocation" is used in all formal events to denote a prayer given by a chaplain, Priest, minister, etc. for the purpose of blessing those that are gathered for the event or the cause they are supporting. It's obvious the University is walking on politically-correct eggshells and simply not wanting to "offend" the attendees. Obviously, we would want a forceful speech upholding our Lord and Savior, but to see its omission as a veiled nod to Satan is pretty outlandish. Frankly, it's rather surprising that a secular university is even including this generic reference to God. We Trads need to stop seeing devil-worshipers under our beds and learn which battles to fight (and which ones are only a product of our imaginations).
(05-17-2013, 06:37 PM)Joshua Wrote: [ -> ]
US_Soldier Wrote:Question 2: At commencement there is an "invocation of a higher power," which to me sounds like a polite way of saying "Satanic divination of false gods and evil spirits." What am I supposed to make of this?

Unless you have actual evidence that the faculty are crypto-satanists, there is absolutely no rational reason to believe any such thing is even remotely taking place. The term "invocation" is used in all formal events to denote a prayer given by a chaplain, Priest, minister, etc. for the purpose of blessing those that are gathered for the event or the cause they are supporting. It's obvious the University is walking on politically-correct eggshells and simply not wanting to "offend" the attendees. Obviously, we would want a forceful speech upholding our Lord and Savior, but to see its omission as a veiled nod to Satan is pretty outlandish. Frankly, it's rather surprising that a secular university is even including this generic reference to God. We Trads need to stop seeing devil-worshipers under our beds and learn which battles to fight (and which ones are only a product of our imaginations).

I don't think it's all that outlandish. Even if Satan did not direct the downplay of Christ's centrality, he certainly revels in it. Satan doesn't really care whether people affirm Satan by name or not, so long as Christ is denied, Satan is pleased. So, even if this flavour of political correctness (that which denies Jesus Christ by name) is not explicitly Satanic, it implicitly isn't that far off.

Any form of worship that does not worship God, does worship Satan. If you allow people replace God with X, filling X with whatever you want, you are permitting the worship of false idols, demons. Do you not think abortion is Moloch worship? Because I do. Moloch doesn't care if people come to him by name, so long as they provide sacrifices and forsake the Lord.
US_Soldier Wrote:So, even if this flavour of political correctness (that which denies Jesus Christ by name) is not explicitly Satanic, it implicitly isn't that far off.

Referring to God as a "Higher Power" is not a "denial of Christ by name" by any stretch of the imagination. It's simply addressing Him by one of His attributes. To say something is implicitly Satanic implies that the hidden nature or essence of the act is itself Satanic. Calling on others to pray to a Higher Power implies absolutely nothing demonic. That is an excruciatingly specific charge and you have no evidence to support it.
US_Soldier Wrote:Any form of worship that does not worship God, does worship Satan.

False worship is not devil-worship. Always distinguish. Worship may be devoid of merit when done outside the Church, but the object of most non-Catholic worship (Jews, Protestants, etc.) is indeed God, but a flawed and underdeveloped image of Him. Satan is a specific entity and no one is guilty of rendering him formal worship unless explicitly done so through Satanic rites or mortal sin.

Again, your concerns are irrational based on what "evidence" you possess. The world is full of many evil people, but it helps no one if we become like Don Quixote, waging crusades against windmills that we perceive as giants. Be thankful that your secular university actually publicly acknowledges the existence of the Divine. I'm surprised someone hasn't launched a suit already.
(05-17-2013, 10:06 PM)Joshua Wrote: [ -> ]
US_Soldier Wrote:So, even if this flavour of political correctness (that which denies Jesus Christ by name) is not explicitly Satanic, it implicitly isn't that far off.

Referring to God as a "Higher Power" is not a "denial of Christ by name" by any stretch of the imagination. It's simply addressing Him by one of His attributes. To say something is implicitly Satanic implies that the hidden nature or essence of the act is itself Satanic. Calling on others to pray to a Higher Power implies absolutely nothing demonic. That is an excruciatingly specific charge and you have no evidence to support it.
US_Soldier Wrote:Any form of worship that does not worship God, does worship Satan.

False worship is not devil-worship. Always distinguish. Worship may be devoid of merit when done outside the Church, but the object of most non-Catholic worship (Jews, Protestants, etc.) is indeed God, but a flawed and underdeveloped image of Him. Satan is a specific entity and no one is guilty of rendering him formal worship unless explicitly done so through Satanic rites or mortal sin.

Again, your concerns are irrational based on what "evidence" you possess. The world is full of many evil people, but it helps no one if we become like Don Quixote, waging crusades against windmills that we perceive as giants. Be thankful that your secular university actually publicly acknowledges the existence of the Divine. I'm surprised someone hasn't launched a suit already.

They are not referring to God. They are simply referring to a "higher power." You are assuming that they are using "higher power" to refer to God. You have no evidence of this. They specifically avoid using the word "God," or "Christ," or any similar. How do you not see that as a denial of Christ? What evidence do you have that they are actually addressing God? I see none. You are making a massive and rather naive assumption in assuming that they are in fact referring to God as the higher power.

In fact, the very reason they use the word "higher power" is because they are not referring to God, as referring to God is offensive, and not everyone believes in God, especially in a school with a significant population of Muslims and Hindus. If you think it is the simple name "God" that offends these people, you are utterly naive and need to spend some time at a University for a while. It is not the name "God," it is the entity, the idea, God Himself, that they reject, ignore, and deny.

If you, or I, or any other Christian described God as the higher power, then what you said is perfectly reasonable. But that's not the situation here, as this isn't a group of Christians talking about God. Do you understand the difference?

Muslims do not pray to God, they pray to Allah. Allah is not a distorted image of God. Allah is a false god. False gods are not distorted images of god, they are demonic. Hindus do not pray to God, they pay to whatever myriad of demonic false gods they pray to, but not a one is God. Nor is worshipping Moloch and Baal worshipping a distorted image of God, it is worshipping demons. Remind me where in the Bible God says to the Israelites "Yeah, Moloch is just a distorted image of me, so you weren't too far off the mark."
It seems the question you need to ask is:  Am I willing to not attend the commencement and break my dad's heart because they are praying to Satan?

When you can answer that question, you will know your own measure and so will we.

Let us know.  Tip o' the hat
(05-17-2013, 10:31 PM)DrBombay Wrote: [ -> ]It seems the question you need to ask is:  Am I willing to not attend the commencement and break my dad's heart because they are praying to Satan?

When you can answer that question, you will know your own measure and so will we.

Let us know.   Tip o' the hat

Well, if you attend Mass and sleep through it, does it count? If not, then by the same token I should be able to attend commencement and sleep through the idolatry, without it counting.  Right?  Smile
(05-17-2013, 10:38 PM)US_Soldier Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-17-2013, 10:31 PM)DrBombay Wrote: [ -> ]It seems the question you need to ask is:  Am I willing to not attend the commencement and break my dad's heart because they are praying to Satan?

When you can answer that question, you will know your own measure and so will we.

Let us know.   Tip o' the hat

Well, if you attend Mass and sleep through it, does it count? If not, then by the same token I should be able to attend commencement and sleep through the idolatry, without it counting.  Right?   Smile

The problem is, Satan never sleeps.  Ergo, it would probably be foolhardy to be asleep oneself when in the midst of a mob invoking him.  QED
US_Soldier Wrote:You are making a massive and rather naive assumption in assuming that they are in fact referring to God as the higher power.

Considering that the attribute "Higher Power" is one of the most ubiquitous titles of God in modern English, it's a far safer bet to acknowledge what is common knowledge as opposed to concocting a wild tale of some super-secret Satanic cult embedded in your college faculty.

US_Soldier Wrote:If you, or I, or any other Christian described God as the higher power, then what you said is perfectly reasonable. But that's not the situation here, as this isn't a group of Christians talking about God. Do you understand the difference?

Not possessing the fullness of revelation concerning God's nature does not divert their veneration to a demonic being. Did not St. Paul tell the Athenians that their worship of the "unknown god" was perhaps an imperfect but intuitive worship of the true God? You are assuming malevolence in people when there is simply ignorance. In your mind, is the spiritual spectrum composed of only two categories, "Catholic - Satanic"?

US_Soldier Wrote:Muslims do not pray to God, they pray to Allah. Allah is not a distorted image of God.

Allah is Arabic for "God". Go to a Melkite, Chaldean or Maronite liturgy once in a while and you'll hear the "a-word" throughout. You are confusing the act of worship with the object of worship. You are correct in saying that Muslims do not worship God, as all worship outside of the Catholic Church is devoid of merit and is called "false worship". However, the object of their worship is what they perceive to be God, but they reject the fullness of His nature, but we can't assume it is malevolently (Mohammed himself is certainly another topic for discussion!). Again, I repeat: There is a distinction between false worship and Satanic worship. Concerning false-worship, you are assuming malevolence on the part of their souls and that is something God is only capable of doing with perfect certainty.

US_Soldier Wrote:Nor is worshipping Moloch and Baal worshipping a distorted image of God, it is worshipping demons.

Obviously. The worshippers of Ba'al and Moloch acknowledged that their worship was demonic and it was done with the explicit rejection of worshiping God (in any form). They knew they were not worshiping God, but willfully worshiped demonic entities and concocted perverse rites to facilitate it (such as child sacrifice). Your analogy has no merit in this context.

Ultimately, bud, you're going to believe whatever the heck you want to believe. Regardless, I would caution you to get your theology in order and not just jump to "Satanic conclusions" for every living non-Catholic. It is neither rational, theologically well founded or Catholic.
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