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I was chatting with a member of the Legion of Mary yesterday who is part of a group visiting homes in our parish. I asked him about the Handbook and he said that it had been "revised" in 1993 and amongst one of the revisions was that the Eastern Orthodox are not to be objects of proselytisation. I was very surprised at this but the Legionary said that this was in line with a teaching of Pope John Paul II.

I've found this which must surely be the revision in question:
Quote:These Orthodox Churches are truly our Sister Churches, we must promote in every way possible reconciliation and unity between us according to the mind of Christ and in keeping with the guidelines of the document "Unitatis Redintegratio" of the Second Vatican Council.

In the succeeding sections of this chapter, what is said in reference to the conversion of those who are not Catholics does not apply to our brothers and sisters of the Orthodox Churches.

So, the Orthodox are to be denied the whole truth and communion with Peter? I find this quite astonishing and an egregious example of false charity.
this is politics of ecumenism
just to argue the other side, the Orthodox are to become Catholic, but as a whole -- the entire Russian Orthodox Church should join the Catholic Church, the entire Antiochene Orthodox Church, and so on. The "current approach" does not favor bringing in individual Orthodox Christians one-by-one
I think of it as a different approach is necessary, but is technically still proselytization.  The Orthodox already are almost entirely correct.  It is completely false to lump them in with muslims, jews and pagans as if they had no faith in Christ at all.  The approach to non-Christians is a wholesale convincing that Christ is the Son of the Living God.  The Orthodox already believe that, so the approach with them should be one of rapprochement.
(05-20-2013, 01:50 PM)Melkite Wrote: [ -> ]I think of it as a different approach is necessary, but is technically still proselytization.  The Orthodox already are almost entirely correct.  It is completely false to lump them in with muslims, jews and pagans as if they had no faith in Christ at all.  The approach to non-Christians is a wholesale convincing that Christ is the Son of the Living God.  The Orthodox already believe that, so the approach with them should be one of rapprochement.
Agreed.

I would not even remotely lump them in with Anglicans and the rest of the Protestant world.  The Orthodox Church at the very least, has a valid priesthood and valid sacraments.  There is a huge difference between them and the rest of the world. 
Take a breath and be calm. The average Orthodox is in the same boat as the average Catholic. Divorce, the pill, and abortion are sins brought on by societal wickedness and it is common to both. Neither follow or respect some of the Popes. The filioque is just sematical problem, that could be fixed by dropping que and adding et.  The anathemas have been dropped. As much as Bl. JP II had problems he was right on target the Romans need the Orthodox.

tim
Looks like we may need to re-read session four: http://www.ewtn.com/library/councils/v1.htm
Perhaps the Holy Spirit was only toying with us when the Church infallibly pronounced the following:
Pope Boniface VIII Wrote:We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is wholly necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff. (Unam Sanctam)

Or:
The Council of Florence Wrote:[The most Holy Roman Church] firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that those not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart `into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels’ (Matt. 25:41), unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of benefit for salvation, and do fastings, almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of Christian service produce eternal reward, and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.

But, no, I do not believe that the Holy Spirit misled the Church and I give my unqualified assent to these divinely-revealed propositions and reject anything that clearly contradicts them and withhold assent to anything that gives the appearance of contradicting them.

I'm astonished that so many Catholics choose to believe something different to what the Church has infallibly taught on this subject.
(05-21-2013, 04:44 AM)Scotus Wrote: [ -> ]Perhaps the Holy Spirit was only toying with us when the Church infallibly pronounced the following:
Pope Boniface VIII Wrote:We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is wholly necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff. (Unam Sanctam)

Or:
The Council of Florence Wrote:[The most Holy Roman Church] firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that those not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart `into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels’ (Matt. 25:41), unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of benefit for salvation, and do fastings, almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of Christian service produce eternal reward, and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.

But, no, I do not believe that the Holy Spirit misled the Church and I give my unqualified assent to these divinely-revealed propositions and reject anything that clearly contradicts them and withhold assent to anything that gives the appearance of contradicting them.

I'm astonished that so many Catholics choose to believe something different to what the Church has infallibly taught on this subject.

Eh.... Ummm.... Where has anybody in this thread denied what you have quoted? The only thing being said in this thread is that the Orthodox need a different manner of evangelization and that they are not Protestants. I am astonished that you cannot separate this highly probable idea about how to treat Orthodox from the idea that Orthodox needn't convert.
(05-21-2013, 04:51 AM)Felix E Wrote: [ -> ]Eh.... Ummm.... Where has anybody in this thread denied what you have quoted? The only thing being said in this thread is that the Orthodox need a different manner of evangelization and that they are not Protestants. I am astonished that you cannot separate this highly probable idea about how to treat Orthodox from the idea that Orthodox needn't convert.

Actually, I was talking about the member of the Legion of Mary with whom I spoke who asserted that they no longer seek the conversion of the Eastern Orthodox full stop. And this based on an interpretation of the words of Pope John Paul II.
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