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(05-23-2013, 11:52 AM)Clare Brigid Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-23-2013, 11:01 AM)Sant Anselmo Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-23-2013, 05:57 AM)Clare Brigid Wrote: [ -> ]There needs to be one point of clarification.

Someone who is not in the state of grace, with supernatural faith, cannot perform meritorious good acts.  Columba Marmion is very clear about this in his works.

On the other hand, any person can do naturally good works, which may merit some kind of earthly reward from God, including certain graces that will bring that person to the Faith.

I know from experience that many non-Christians are more naturally virtuous than I am.

Good points.  Do you mind if I blatantly steal that from you?

Please do!  I stole it from Bl. Columba Marmion, who stole it from Catholic teaching.  LOL

Thanks!  I was looking for a specific quote from him on the topic, do you happen to have one handy?

Peace,
(05-23-2013, 12:16 PM)Sant Anselmo Wrote: [ -> ]Thanks!  I was looking for a specific quote from him on the topic, do you happen to have one handy?

It's in Christ the Life of the Soul, which I strongly recommend to any Catholic.  I think it is in one of the chapters on the necessity of faith.  He does not mince words.  He says that to really please God, one's works must be done with supernatural faith, in the state of grace.  He says they have no value otherwise.  I was shocked when I read that, but then I learned that this is true Catholic teaching.

I'm afraid that the Holy Father was not at all clear on this point.
Anytime you read something about the Holy Father in Huffington Post or a similar publication you should put on your special super-sensitive Catholic glasses in order to see the invisible stuff between the lines. They mess everything up. I don't understand why any Catholic serious about his faith would not realize that their articles on Catholic matters cannot just be accepted at face value. Not to mention that schools don't seem to be teaching real journalism anymore.

I wouldn't criticize the Pope for saying something that can be "easily" misunderstood or twisted. Protestants have had no trouble misunderstanding, twisting, and trumpeting about basic Catholic beliefs for centuries. Should we criticize the Church for the Marian dogmas or for teaching the Real Presence?
(05-23-2013, 12:35 PM)Clare Brigid Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-23-2013, 12:16 PM)Sant Anselmo Wrote: [ -> ]Thanks!  I was looking for a specific quote from him on the topic, do you happen to have one handy?

It's in Christ the Life of the Soul, which I strongly recommend to any Catholic.  I think it is in one of the chapters on the necessity of faith.  He does not mince words.  He says that to really please God, one's works must be done with supernatural faith, in the state of grace.  He says they have no value otherwise.  I was shocked when I read that, but then I learned that this is true Catholic teaching.

I'm afraid that the Holy Father was not at all clear on this point.

Thanks.  I will get that book ASAP.  I have Christ the Ideal of a Monk already, but am more than happy to add more from Marimon into my collection. 

I am reading a book now on Monastic Spirituality which does not mince any words at all on the necessity of the Church. It is post V2, but quite good. 

+Pax
(05-23-2013, 12:55 PM)Sant Anselmo Wrote: [ -> ]I am reading a book now on Monastic Spirituality which does not mince any words at all on the necessity of the Church. It is post V2, but quite good. 

Out of curiosity: what book is that?
(05-23-2013, 02:12 PM)ecclesiastes Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-23-2013, 12:55 PM)Sant Anselmo Wrote: [ -> ]I am reading a book now on Monastic Spirituality which does not mince any words at all on the necessity of the Church. It is post V2, but quite good. 

Out of curiosity: what book is that?
http://www.amazon.com/Monastic-Spirituality-Claude-J-Peifer/dp/B0007DM4MW/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1369333280&sr=8-2-fkmr0&keywords=peiffer+monastic+spirituality

+Pax
Huh?

It's a confusing message to most people. Why even bother be Catholic they'll say, it's easier to be something else and just be good. That's what the pope pretty much said...

And of course we don't have the priests to correctly convey these thoughts to the lay people.

Why value ecumenism more than trying to SAVE people?
(05-23-2013, 08:29 PM)Ursus Wrote: [ -> ]Why value ecumenism more than trying to SAVE people?

The two are not mutual exclusive.
Someone over at CAF had a good point.  Why can't the Pope's comment where he said: "Someone can object, 'But I don't believe, Father, I'm an atheist.' But do good and we'll meet there,". simply be taken to mean: "I know we don't agree on God, but we can certainly agree to help people, so let's start there and see what happens..." or something along those lines? 
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