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It seems during every commercial break they show the clip of when Pope Francis firsts steps onto the loggia. I can understand doing that in the first month of his papacy, but it has been 6 months. I don't remember them doing that when Pope Benedict was first elected. They also have little clips of him speaking before he was pope after every show.

It's John Paul II II.

God bless the man and may he do right by trads, but there does seem to be a cult of personality developing around him, much like there was with John Paul II, who was a very affable, warm, grandfatherly man -- but a weak as water Pope. Or at least a very misguided Pope. I've read that his having grown up in a Communist country made him disbelieve some of the reports he was given, thinking of them as akin to Commie smear tactics. I guess I have to give him the benefit of that doubt, but still, under his watch, the human element of the Church continued to crumble, alas.

I have to wonder why, though, if he didn't trust his advisers, he didn't get new ones he didn't suspect of being Commie sympathizers or gullible relative to Commie sympathizers who'd given them "erroneous" information (which turned out to be true for the most part).
(09-15-2013, 06:05 PM)Vox Clamantis Wrote: [ -> ]It's John Paul II II.

God bless the man and may he do right by trads, but there does seem to be a cult of personality developing around him, much like there was with John Paul II, who was a very affable, warm, grandfatherly man -- but a weak as water Pope. Or at least a very misguided Pope. I've read that his having grown up in a Communist country made him disbelieve some of the reports he was given, thinking of them as akin to Commie smear tactics. I guess I have to give him the benefit of that doubt, but still, under his watch, the human element of the Church continued to crumble, alas.

I have to wonder why, though, if he didn't trust his advisers, he didn't get new ones he didn't suspect of being Commie sympathizers or gullible relative to Commie sympathizers who'd given them "erroneous" information (which turned out to be true for the most part).

He does remind me of JPII, also John XXIII.

JPII was a neo-Thomist/personalist. BXVI was an Augustinian theologian. What is Francis' theology? 

Also, I think it is significant that Francis is the first pope since the Council who was not at Vatican II, or one of the innovators of the "conciliar Church."  One one hand he seems to transcend all the post-conciliar movements of reform; on the other hand, he seems to represent a new phase of reform beyond that of the conciliar reform.  Francis is aiming for a poor Church, and that keeps unfolding each new day of his pontificate.
(09-15-2013, 10:23 PM)christulsa123 Wrote: [ -> ]Also, I think it is significant that Francis is the first pope since the Council who was not at Vatican II, or one of the innovators of the "conciliar Church."  One one hand he seems to transcend all the post-conciliar movements of reform; on the other hand, he seems to represent a new phase of reform beyond that of the conciliar reform.  Francis is aiming for a poor Church, and that keeps unfolding each new day of his pontificate.

He was ordained as a Jesuit in 1969, which means, since Jesuit formation is quite lengthy, that his training took place during and immediately after the Council, by which time the Jesuits were in free fall toward becoming waterboys for the communist revolution, especially in South America. I had a Priest friend who joined the SJ in 1947 and was ordained just as the Council began. After several years as a military Chaplain, he returned, took one look at the Institute, and said, 'This is not the Order I joined', and walked away. It was years before he returned to the Church.
God keep the Holy Father, but I do worry I have yet to see a big idea or grand vision from Pope Francis aside from social justice and that sort of thing. If there is one thing the Catholic Church doesn't need more of in my experience its social justice. Virtually every announcement I hear about from Bishops, the American Council of Bishops I think its called or most catholic organizations are on this topic.

If anything, regardless of what you think of them Evangelicals have shown in America and the third world have shown the effectiveness of sincere and enthusiastic faith centric teaching, while of course lacking sacraments and often times a rigorous intellectual tradition, in term's of raw numbers especially in terms of growth they seem to ok without a focus on social justice. Just my two sense.