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This is another interview with Pope Francis. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion...stics.html

Some people over at another Catholic forum are saying it is just the media blowing things out of proportion. But I do not know how to relate these words to the Catechism and holy scripture. In particular:

The Catechism, paragraph 27 says that man is made for God, who constantly calls him. So an atheist is actively pushing away from God. Hmm.. Conscience in paragraphs 1776 onwards urges one to be in accord with divine law. The presence of the conscience may make one responsible (1781) for his evil actions, but it does not make one saved.

Check out paragraph 161 on the necessity of faith: "Believing in Jesus Christ and in the One who sent him for our salvation is necessary for obtaining that salvation. 'Since "without faith it is impossible to please [God]" and to attain to the fellowship of his sons'...."

So I'm not sure how to relate to the Pope's comments here.. Maybe I will have to take a closer look at them and relate them to holy scripture and the codes and creeds of the church. But in the mean time I'm a bit baffled..
(09-19-2013, 01:08 PM)Augustine33 Wrote: [ -> ]The Catechism, paragraph 27 says that man is made for God, who constantly calls him.

True.

(09-19-2013, 01:08 PM)Augustine33 Wrote: [ -> ]Conscience in paragraphs 1776 onwards urges one to be in accord with divine law.

Check out paragraph 161 on the necessity of faith: "Believing in Jesus Christ and in the One who sent him for our salvation is necessary for obtaining that salvation. 'Since "without faith it is impossible to please [God]" and to attain to the fellowship of his sons'...."

Also very, very true.

(09-19-2013, 01:08 PM)Augustine33 Wrote: [ -> ]So I'm not sure how to relate to the Pope's comments here.. Maybe I will have to take a closer look at them and relate them to holy scripture and the codes and creeds of the church. But in the mean time I'm a bit baffled..

Aren't we all a bit baffled  LOL

The past half-century or so has been rough when it comes to having the faith presented to the faithful in a clear manner. Rather than risk sounding like a broken record, my thoughts on the matter are as follows, which I posted in a similar form in another thread:

Even though His Holiness' words may seem extremely concerning in some places, to feel anxious about his particular ideology on this or that issue is not worth the time, especially after just browsing something a secular paper whipped up. If you believe in the indefectability of the Church, what's to fear, as none of the changes he or any other Pope ever makes can send your soul, personally, to hell. We can quietly grieve and then pray that the Holy Father has the courage, strength, and foresight to make the best decision, but, in the end, we have our Mother the Church, no matter who is steering the barque of Peter. We hope that our current Pope and all Popes make decisions and communicate doctrine in a manner that will allow for the most people to co-operate with God's grace and not be scandalized. Instead of complaining, we should pray and set a good example.

Any Pope, as far as the facts on the surface go, would be in error, who in his own opinion contradicts any dogma of the faith. But that doesn't suddenly make Catholicism crumble. Does it scandalize souls? Sure. But this is why we need to guard our own souls like the precious pearl and persevere in the practice of our holy religion, the one true faith.

A Pope's private thoughts does not equal the expression of the mind of the Church. Just because a Pope supplies a private opinion, it doesn't make it the (pun intended) Gospel truth.
Thanks, it's good to hear some calm words. It's easy to react emotionally and dive off the deep end, "how could he say that!" That was almost my first response lol.. After praying the office and reading my catechism a bit (and doing some homework) I felt a bit better. Which is how I interpret your post. Our faith is based on more than Father Francis' comments here.

(09-19-2013, 02:43 PM)Augustine33 Wrote: [ -> ]After praying the office

You pray the Office? May God bless you for taking the time to pray with the voice of Holy Church. I find the Office a source of great consolation, as well as a connection with the present moment down through the centuries, knowing that countless holy souls have prayed in the same manner, with the same words, for the world and for God's Holy Church, against which the gates of hell will not prevail. It as if it is implying that, no matter how stormy the sea of the present age, if you keep your soul safe, it will not be carried away.

"And Jesus was in the hinder part of the ship, sleeping upon a pillow; and they awake him, and say to him: Master, doth it not concern thee that we perish? And rising up, he rebuked the wind, and said to the sea: Peace, be still. And the wind ceased: and there was made a great calm. And he said to them: Why are you fearful? have you not faith yet?"
(09-19-2013, 03:02 PM)IVSTINIVS Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-19-2013, 02:43 PM)Augustine33 Wrote: [ -> ]After praying the office

You pray the Office? May God bless you for taking the time to pray with the voice of Holy Church. I find the Office a source of great consolation, as well as a connection with the present moment down through the centuries, knowing that countless holy souls have prayed in the same manner, with the same words, for the world and for God's Holy Church, against which the gates of hell will not prevail. It as if it is implying that, no matter how stormy the sea of the present age, if you keep your soul safe, it will not be carried away.

"And Jesus was in the hinder part of the ship, sleeping upon a pillow; and they awake him, and say to him: Master, doth it not concern thee that we perish? And rising up, he rebuked the wind, and said to the sea: Peace, be still. And the wind ceased: and there was made a great calm. And he said to them: Why are you fearful? have you not faith yet?"

Exactly! I heard protestants coming down on a Catholic girl because she was trying to figure out her ribbons. They were telling her to just pray from the heart; that's just ritual. If only they knew that the Church has been praying this way for ages, and millions of others are praying in unity with her. There is great beauty, depth, and stability there.

I did pray from the book of Christian prayer, which you probably know is shortened form. I left that back in Vancouver when I came here for Grad school, so I'm just using the Universalis site now. I'm not sure moving forward which breviary to purchase. Do you use one in particular?
(09-19-2013, 04:24 PM)Augustine33 Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-19-2013, 03:02 PM)IVSTINIVS Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-19-2013, 02:43 PM)Augustine33 Wrote: [ -> ]After praying the office

You pray the Office? May God bless you for taking the time to pray with the voice of Holy Church. I find the Office a source of great consolation, as well as a connection with the present moment down through the centuries, knowing that countless holy souls have prayed in the same manner, with the same words, for the world and for God's Holy Church, against which the gates of hell will not prevail. It as if it is implying that, no matter how stormy the sea of the present age, if you keep your soul safe, it will not be carried away.

"And Jesus was in the hinder part of the ship, sleeping upon a pillow; and they awake him, and say to him: Master, doth it not concern thee that we perish? And rising up, he rebuked the wind, and said to the sea: Peace, be still. And the wind ceased: and there was made a great calm. And he said to them: Why are you fearful? have you not faith yet?"

Exactly! I heard protestants coming down on a Catholic girl because she was trying to figure out her ribbons. They were telling her to just pray from the heart; that's just ritual. If only they knew that the Church has been praying this way for ages, and millions of others are praying in unity with her. There is great beauty, depth, and stability there.

I did pray from the book of Christian prayer, which you probably know is shortened form. I left that back in Vancouver when I came here for Grad school, so I'm just using the Universalis site now. I'm not sure moving forward which breviary to purchase. Do you use one in particular?

Yes. I pray the 1960 Office. I have the actual books (which are difficult to find anymore, unfortunately) but also use this awesome website created by a dear man

http://divinumofficium.com/cgi-bin/horas/officium.pl

to pray the Office whenever I've left my books at home. That website not only has the '60 Office (which is what priests, for example, of the FSSP and ICKSP pray) but the older versions of the Office all the way back to the Pre-Tridentine days.
The FSSP actually publishes the Office and can be purchased here:

http://www.fraternitypublications.com/brrotrobrso.html

It's all Latin, with the 1960 rubrics and calendar from '62. Finding a Latin-English Office is extremely difficult. Baronius Press published one just a short while ago but they sold out virtually instantly. If you're interested you may want to check their site for updates:

http://www.baroniuspress.com/book.php?wid=56&bid=59#tab=tab-1
ooh yeah I figured it would be hard to get the a 1960 breviary in English and Latin.  sad(  Guess I'll have to learn Latin...

That's an awesome website btw. I forgot about it. I used to be on it all the time during my undergrad classes lol. I may just start using this instead of the modern Roman breviary posted on universalis.
(09-19-2013, 04:48 PM)Augustine33 Wrote: [ -> ]ooh yeah I figured it would be hard to get the a 1960 breviary in English and Latin.

Once every couple months or so it seems like one shows up on eBay. Most English-Latin versions are three volumes. Random single volumes of the three-book sets show up seemingly all the time but aren't really worth it IMO since you can only pray approximately 4 months with them and, in the end, compiling a set this way probably ends up being more expensive and infinitely more frustrating since you then have to go on a wild goose-chase for the other volumes. I waited until I found a nice complete set.

But when the full set appears, be prepared to pay.  LOL

So unfortunate that they are scarce and therefore generate lots of bidding activity and high prices. What a world where we could simply get one if we wanted it! A guy can dream.
(09-20-2013, 01:55 PM)IVSTINIVS Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-19-2013, 04:48 PM)Augustine33 Wrote: [ -> ]ooh yeah I figured it would be hard to get the a 1960 breviary in English and Latin.

Once every couple months or so it seems like one shows up on eBay. Most English-Latin versions are three volumes. Random single volumes of the three-book sets show up seemingly all the time but aren't really worth it IMO since you can only pray approximately 4 months with them and, in the end, compiling a set this way probably ends up being more expensive and infinitely more frustrating since you then have to go on a wild goose-chase for the other volumes. I waited until I found a nice complete set.

But when the full set appears, be prepared to pay.  LOL

So unfortunate that they are scarce and therefore generate lots of bidding activity and high prices. What a world where we could simply get one if we wanted it! A guy can dream.

Yeah, wow. I'd rather buy the whole set together. Hopefully Baronius or some other traditional Catholic publisher will hop on this considering the demand!
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