FishEaters Traditional Catholic Forums

Full Version: The pope's Interview in La Repubblica
You're currently viewing a stripped down version of our content. View the full version with proper formatting.
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
As we saw in the previous interview, this Pope is simply not in touch with reality. 

The suggestions that he made on the state of the Church were so far beyond the truth that it is hard to find common ground.  Now, we see the same thing here but in terms of evil.  When you consider rape, murder, abortion, sex trafficking, pornography, drug cartels, slavery, prostitution, adultery, apostasy, child abuse, genocide, war, gay "marriage", modernism, atheism, persecution, etc.; and the two worst evils in the world according to Francis are: unemployment and care for the elderly?  His statement is quite ridiculous, as are his statements on the Church's focus on issues of sin, her reception of liturgical changes after Vatican II, etc. 

Don't get me wrong, I am not for one second saying that the Church should not do things for the poor or care for the old.  Of course she should.  That is not the point.  The point is that this man is either the most cunning man I have ever seen, or he is completely and totally clueless. 
(10-01-2013, 10:16 AM)Sant Anselmo Wrote: [ -> ]The point is that this man is either the most cunning man I have ever seen, or he is completely and totally clueless. 

This.
(10-01-2013, 10:33 AM)Jamey77 Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-01-2013, 10:16 AM)Sant Anselmo Wrote: [ -> ]The point is that this man is either the most cunning man I have ever seen, or he is completely and totally clueless. 

This.

At this point I have to agree with this as well.
(10-01-2013, 10:33 AM)Jamey77 Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-01-2013, 10:16 AM)Sant Anselmo Wrote: [ -> ]The point is that this man is either the most cunning man I have ever seen, or he is completely and totally clueless. 

This.


Cunnning?

Please explain.
(10-01-2013, 10:54 AM)RedCaves Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-01-2013, 10:33 AM)Jamey77 Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-01-2013, 10:16 AM)Sant Anselmo Wrote: [ -> ]The point is that this man is either the most cunning man I have ever seen, or he is completely and totally clueless. 

This.

Cunnning?

Please explain.

Well, there's crazy, and there is crazy like fox.  My suggestion is that the Pope is either completely detached from reality, or he knows something we all don't and is so much smarter than I am that I cannot see what his plan is, or that there is even a plan to begin with.  http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/crazy+like+a+fox
It makes more sense to argue that he IS detached from reality.
You mean like while he is smiling and nodding, he is secretly preparing a master plan? Please be the Vaticannon :grin:
(10-01-2013, 09:35 AM)Unum Sint Wrote: [ -> ]After that interview all I could think of is "time to abandon ship."

So wait if conversion is non-sense then what this new talk about the "new evangelization?" He makes no sense. I can only assume that he is playing with the athiest telling him what he wants to hear being sneaky like St Paul on Mars hill. However I think he goes too far.

He didn't say conversion is nonsense; he said proselytism (as in the act of proselytizing) is.  A lot of folks see proselytizing as different from evangelizing though they're pretty synonymous in most dictionaries. I'm hoping the Pope is meaning what St. Francis meant when he said "Spread the Gospel; use words if necessary." Of course, the Dominicans would have something to say to that.

From the interview Wrote:He smiles again and replies: "Proselytism is solemn nonsense, it makes no sense. We need to get to know each other, listen to each other and improve our knowledge of the world around us. Sometimes after a meeting I want to arrange another one because new ideas are born and I discover new needs. This is important: to get to know people, listen, expand the circle of ideas. The world is crisscrossed by roads that come closer together and move apart, but the important thing is that they lead towards the Good."

Your Holiness, is there is a single vision of the Good? And who decides what it is?

"Each of us has a vision of good and of evil. We have to encourage people to move towards what they think is Good."

Your Holiness you wrote that in your letter to me. The conscience is autonomous, you said, and everyone must obey his conscience. I think that's one of the most courageous steps taken by a Pope.

"And I repeat it here. Everyone has his own idea of good and evil and must choose to follow the good and fight evil as he conceives them. That would be enough to make the world a better place."

That latter bit has me more concerned. My take is that while everyone obviously has the free will to choose good or evil, and everyone has to make up his own mind about things one way or another, our duty is to inform our conscience (which the Church is supposed to be helping us to do), ultimately follow what She teaches is the Good, and allow grace to operate there. Obviously, folks who don't accept the Church's authority have to go by their own, uninformed consciences, which are fallible. While I'm "sure" he's right that if people listened to their conscience, the world would be a batter place, it bothers me that he doesn't talk there about the duty to inform our conscience.

If, as Melchior is saying, the Pope is sort of Rousseauist in his optimism about people, he seems to be glossing over original sin.  I mean, Rousseau couldn't have been more wrong in so much of what he said. While I happen to think most folks are "nice" on an individual level (in spite of the effects of original sin), on a sociological level, when it comes to civilizations, groups, social structures, things like identity politics and social movements, the effects of too much specialization, the power of demagoguery --- people are wicked as all get out, easily misled. It's a Lord of the Flies world. Hmmm, literally.

And finally, why wouldn't he want to convert the interviewer? I mean, I can see not advertising that to the interviewer, or taking the St. Francis approach as mentioned above -- but to not have the intention, the will, to get him to accept Christ? I don't get that at ALL. I hope I'm missing something. Wow.
 
(10-01-2013, 10:16 AM)Sant Anselmo Wrote: [ -> ]The point is that this man is either the most cunning man I have ever seen, or he is completely and totally clueless. 

For what it's worth, I am getting a very strong cunning vibe from him.  I will not be the least surprised if it turns out that he has been playing the media.
(10-01-2013, 10:08 AM)spikepaga Wrote: [ -> ]Oh wait, his words are being twisted!!

What a terrible..... leader .......

(What I said on another thread.)  So far, the leadership is below zero on the number line.  Add to that, irresponsibility.

Very difficult to respect such a person, given that he accepted an actual position and actual duties.  :O
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10