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(10-01-2013, 04:01 PM)austenbosten Wrote: [ -> ]I don't know Pope-Emeritus Benedict XVI showed some balls with his letter to the atheist....far more hard-hitting than Francis.
Yes, he did, Deo gratias.
(10-01-2013, 02:12 PM)Unum Sint Wrote: [ -> ]I was never big on the idea that God was punishing His Church because of the abdication,,, however after these events I must reconsider it seems as a matter of fact that is what God is indeed doing.

I was open before the conclave about hoping we would get the pope we need rather than the one we deserve.  That ship has sailed. 
There is no word to describe how this interview has impacted me, betrayed, confused, befuddled, gobsmacked... I am embarrassed right now, I do not want to spend any time with my conservative protestant family who had come around to accepting that the Popes were real Christians and men of God because how can I explain this?

I want to crawl in a hole and hide until the next conclave.
If i had not known theology before affirming the catholic faith, Pope Francis- i kid you not- would basically be telling me "there is no reason to become catholic, average beileving protestants go to heaven also."

Pelagian was declared a heretic.

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/1503.htm I ask folk to read Chapter 2, that would provide a take on what HH Francis is saying.  its augustine.

As i told my parents. I try to keep an open mind on Francis, but by and large, Im not worried about what the pope says, unless he speaks dogmatically.  The rest he is free to err like you or I.  By the same token, it is not generally wise to disregard the advice of your elders.

to be blunt, Francis really is doing a piss-poor job of defining terms, or choosing the correct words.  IM sure there are innocent reasons for this but there are also not so innocent.    Athiests are _____ how many folk really know the difference between justification and sanctification?  proselytizing vs evanglizing - huh? So westboro is full of nutters, i get that... but there is a far cry between WBC and the average guy who goes door to door saying "Let me tell you about Jesus Christ".

The priest that teachs RCIA likes Fundamentals by Ott, So im gonna have a chat with him and just ask him to help me understand what Francis is saying or not.....even if my priest speaks "off the record" i care not.. I simply want to sit down with someone and discuss.
Quote:From my point of view, God is the light that illuminates the darkness, even if it does not dissolve it, and a spark of divine light is within each of us...our species will end but the light of God will not end and at that point it will invade all souls and it will all be in everyone."

How is this not new age, universal salvation or modernism?

This papacy,  I fear, isn't going to end well. The chastisement approacheth. If I was a betting man, I'd say sometime between now and the day after Divine Mercy Sunday 2014.

By that, I mean the physical chastisement to go along with the spiritual we are already in.
(10-01-2013, 03:05 PM)winoblue1 Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-01-2013, 08:28 AM)Melchior Wrote: [ -> ]At a precursory glance, I think something that separates Pope Francis from others is that he's got a bit of Rousseau in him - in the sense that within a vacuum, people are inherently good.  That if they follow their conscious, they'll do fundamentally good things.  In the process of people doing this and doing good things, they'll be more open to evangilization.  Not proselytism, which isn't the same as evangelism.  The former is something that fiery fundamentalist Baptists do from soap boxes.  The latter is something like what Francis & Dominic would do.

If he thinks that in a state of nature people are fundamentally good he is a heretic, because this denies original sin.

And you hit the nail on the head - all modernists deny original sin

The pope is right in that as humans are inherently good as God made us. It is however because of original sin that we became corrupted and distorted.

God saw all he had made and behold it was good (Genesis 1:31) and also several passages through the book of Genesis.

So the pope is right in that humans are inherently good as God made us but through original sin we are not anymore
(10-01-2013, 06:54 PM)medievalman86 Wrote: [ -> ]Im not worried about what the pope says, unless he speaks dogmatically.
Whenever a pope speaks, shouldn't it be to instruct and edify others, not confuse them? Thus, shouldn't a pope strive to be a precise as possible in his speech? Jesus didn't waste a single word.
(10-01-2013, 10:34 PM)Geremia Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-01-2013, 06:54 PM)medievalman86 Wrote: [ -> ]Im not worried about what the pope says, unless he speaks dogmatically.
Whenever a pope speaks, shouldn't it be to instruct and edify others, not confuse them? Thus, shouldn't a pope strive to be a precise as possible in his speech? Jesus didn't waste a single word.

Ding ding ding.  We have a winner.  Peter's job was to confirm others in the Faith, not confuse the heck out of them. 
(10-01-2013, 10:44 PM)Sant Anselmo Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-01-2013, 10:34 PM)Geremia Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-01-2013, 06:54 PM)medievalman86 Wrote: [ -> ]Im not worried about what the pope says, unless he speaks dogmatically.
Whenever a pope speaks, shouldn't it be to instruct and edify others, not confuse them? Thus, shouldn't a pope strive to be a precise as possible in his speech? Jesus didn't waste a single word.

Ding ding ding.  We have a winner.  Peter's job was to confirm others in the Faith, not confuse the heck out of them. 

I was going to type exactly what you did.  No joke.
(10-01-2013, 10:47 PM)Oatmeal Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-01-2013, 10:44 PM)Sant Anselmo Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-01-2013, 10:34 PM)Geremia Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-01-2013, 06:54 PM)medievalman86 Wrote: [ -> ]Im not worried about what the pope says, unless he speaks dogmatically.
Whenever a pope speaks, shouldn't it be to instruct and edify others, not confuse them? Thus, shouldn't a pope strive to be a precise as possible in his speech? Jesus didn't waste a single word.

Ding ding ding.  We have a winner.  Peter's job was to confirm others in the Faith, not confuse the heck out of them. 

I was going to type exactly what you did.  No joke.

Well you know, great minds and all that sort of thing...  :grin:
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