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Full Version: Francis says "there is no Catholic God"! (excerpts from La Reppublica interview)
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(source for interview)
Francis Wrote:Proselytism is solemn nonsense, it makes no sense. We need to get to know each other, listen to each other and improve our knowledge of the world around us.
Matthew 28:19 ("Going, therefore, teach ye all nations: baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.") must be nonsense, too…
Francis Wrote:Each of us has a vision of good and of evil. We have to encourage people to move towards what they think is Good.
This sounds Epicurean.
Francis Wrote:And I repeat it here [that "conscience is autonomous" "and everyone must obey his conscience"]. Everyone has his own idea of good and evil and must choose to follow the good and fight evil as he conceives them. That would be enough to make the world a better place.
Francis Wrote:[Agape] is not proselytizing, it is love.
Proselytizing (sharing the Gospel with others) is evil? Perhaps he thinks proselytizing = "forced conversion"?
Francis Wrote:The [papal] court is the leprosy of the papacy.
Francis Wrote:[John Paul II's excommunications of Liberation Theologians] certainly gave a political aspect to their theology, but many of them were believers and with a high concept of humanity.
Francis Wrote:Descartes, however, never denied faith in a transcendent God.
I thought Descartes locked God up in an "idea" in the individual person.
Francis Wrote:when I meet a clericalist, I suddenly become anti-clerical
St. Paul is the one who laid down the cornerstones of our religion and our creed. You cannot be a conscious Christian without St. Paul. He translated the teachings of Christ into a doctrinal structure that, even with the additions of a vast number of thinkers, theologians and pastors, has resisted and still exists after two thousand years.[/quote]This is a better understanding of doctrinal development than in his La Civiltà Cattolica interview.
Francis Wrote:So I'd say: Augustine and Francis.
I didn't know those were the two saints "closest to [his] soul."
Francis Wrote:[Mystics] have been fundamental. A religion without mystics is a philosophy.
Francis Wrote:You're probably right [that I am not a mystic]. I love the mystics; Francis also was in many aspects of his life, but I do not think I have the vocation and then we must understand the deep meaning of that word. The mystic manages to strip himself of action, of facts, objectives and even the pastoral mission and rises until he reaches communion with the Beatitudes. Brief moments but which fill an entire life.
Interestingly, Fr. Garrigou-Lagrange says that infused contemplation is the normal way of sanctity for everyone. We are all called to attain the Beatific Vision.

Why he considers himself an Augustinian:
Francis Wrote:Even for my predecessor Augustine is a reference point. That saint went through many vicissitudes in his life and changed his doctrinal position several times. He also had harsh words for the Jews, which I never shared. He wrote many books and what I think is most revealing of his intellectual and spiritual intimacy are the "Confessions", which also contain some manifestations of mysticism, but he is not, as many would argue, a continuation of Paul. Indeed, he sees the Church and the faith in very different ways than Paul, perhaps four centuries passed between one and the other.
His conception of grace:
Francis Wrote:No one can know that [I am "touched by grace"]. Grace is not part of consciousness, it is the amount of light in our souls, not knowledge nor reason. Even you, without knowing it, could be touched by grace.
After describing how it is a good thing there are so few Catholics in the world (that we are a "poor Church", leaven "infinitely smaller than the mass of fruits"), he calls for more religious ecumenism and dialogue than ever!:
Francis Wrote:Vatican II, inspired by Pope Paul VI and John, decided to look to the future with a modern spirit and to be open to modern culture. The Council Fathers knew that being open to modern culture meant religious ecumenism and dialogue with non-believers. But afterwards very little was done in that direction. I have the humility and ambition to want to do something.
He recognizes his role as "head of the Church," but he always couples it with a "non-head" title:
Quote:providence has placed me at the head of the Church and the Diocese of Peter […] I am the Bishop of Rome and Pope of the Catholic world
Then, he advocates for a monarchic-democratic Church:
Francis Wrote:The first thing I decided was to appoint a group of eight cardinals to be my advisers. Not courtiers but wise people who share my own feelings. This is the beginning of a Church with an organization that is not just top-down but also horizontal.
The Church is political, yet he says:
Francis Wrote:I have already said that the Church will not deal with politics.
So much for States' duty to uphold the 1st Commandment:
Francis Wrote:Political institutions are secular by definition […] All my predecessors have said the same thing, for many years at least, albeit with different accents.
There is no Catholic God‽ Is Francis atheist? As long as he believes in a God, he could believe in pantheism, Allah, the Great Thumb, etc.
Francis Wrote:I believe in God, not in a Catholic God, there is no Catholic God
Here he appears to uphold Mirari Vos, Quanta Cura, etc., Deo gratias!:
Francis Wrote:Personally I think so-called unrestrained liberalism only makes the strong stronger and the weak weaker and excludes the most excluded.
Francis Wrote:We will also discuss the role of women in the Church. Remember that the Church (la chiesa) is [a] feminine [word in Italian].
The interviewer wants to talk about "that great soul" Pascal (a fideist and Jansenist). Hopefully that dominates the next interview, rather than "cardinalettes" etc.
There's no Catholic God because it would mean that there can be also a Muslim God. God is God.
Translation of the excerpts:

I have no use for the Papacy, or even Catholicism separate from other religions.  (Wait, why did I accept this assignment, again?  ???)
(10-01-2013, 01:40 PM)PolishTrad Wrote: [ -> ]There's no Catholic God because it would mean that there can be also a Muslim God.
There is a Muslim god, and it is not the Holy Trinity.

It's ironic that he goes against the etymology of the word Catholic.
"Geremia" Wrote:There is a Muslim god, and it is not the Holy Trinity.
How come, if there is only one God?
(10-01-2013, 01:50 PM)PolishTrad Wrote: [ -> ]
"Geremia" Wrote:There is a Muslim god, and it is not the Holy Trinity.
How come, if there is only one God?

Perhaps he's inferring that Moslems worship "their father below"
Yeah, but Satan is not the evil God.
(10-01-2013, 01:50 PM)PolishTrad Wrote: [ -> ]
"Geremia" Wrote:There is a Muslim god, and it is not the Holy Trinity.
How come, if there is only one God?
Yeah, and God is whoever our conscience makes Him to be…
This pope scares me.  >:(
Ok this is becoming signature Francis, he is right in a certain sense. God after all created the heaven's and the earth and made all people in his image, so in that sense he is the God of all people regardless of religion. But how that is interpreted is "there is no Catholic Conception of God that is solely correct " That is what to me at least in the post-modern age the meaning of So and So's God, not the question of the existence of a God but the existence of a particular God and honestly I don't know what he is doing. Sure it sounds more poetic and mystical but at the same time it also is vague.

I always like how Michael Coren put it "All religions contain varying amounts of truth but only Catholicism contains the fullness of the truth." Another better way would be "God is God to all people not just Catholics, we are just the only ones who fully know him." Something like that would have been clearer.
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