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Full Version: Michael Voris vs. Mark Shea Debate Tonight
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I hope Voris creams him too.  Shea grates on me like nails on a chalkboard most of the time.
Shea will only ever defend a traditionalist...

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/markshea/20...lists.html

if he's correcting other trads.

He will also never, ever, ever say anything bad, or even tangentially critical, of a bishop, ever -- not even a peep about Mahony Fest.

You see, he is a Professional Catholic with mediocre writing skills.  He must have the good will of the bishops and other such entities like Catholic Answers or his livelihood is threatened.  Thus, trads bad. (They don't buy his stuff anyway.) And everything that the Church of Nice does is good. (He knows which side his bread is buttered on.)
I think Shea's a decent writer -- very readable. But you're right about his anti-trad animus. And he's been very, as in extremely unfair to Mr. Voris, which is another, personal reason why I want Mr. Voris to win. I'd love for him to have that satisfaction of defeating his persecutor. But most of all, I want people to wake up to the crisis in the Church -- and to see FETradition as the answer!


ETA: For fairness's sake, I want to add that Mr. Shea has had at me and my site, too -- and he was also decent enough to publish a little defense I made of my work. That was a long time ago...  But he's treated Mr. Voris much worse than he treated me, and I do want Mr. Voris to have that satisfaction of defending himself and being seen as "on the right side" when he does!



I realized a few weeks ago after the latest edition of Northwest Catholic magazine that he lives in my city.  He really does go to arguably the best and most reverent NO in town; it's run by Dominicans in an absolutely beautiful old church building.

I haven't really followed his writing, but it makes me wonder what trads he is talking about. Cranky internet trads? It surely can't be the ones in his own backyard. 

Mr. Shea, if you read this, I personally invite you to visit North American Martyrs, the FSSP parish in Seattle. You can sit with my husband, kids, and I. You can see how overjoyed we all are to have access to the traditional forms liturgy and the sacraments because of our great love for Christ, our desire to honor him and lift our hearts up to Him. Our parish is bursting with life, both literally and figuratively. Like you, many of my friends and I are actually converts from protestantism. I'm sure we have much in common and are probably on the same side in many things. Also, we're having our second annual Octoberfest this weekend, don't miss out on all the homebrews.  :cheers:
I remember him referring to Traditional Catholics as being part of "Urine-and-Vinegar Catholicism"
(10-08-2013, 06:29 PM)iona_scribe Wrote: [ -> ](snip)

Mr. Shea, if you read this, I personally invite you to visit North American Martyrs, the FSSP parish in Seattle. You can sit with my husband, kids, and I. You can see how overjoyed we all are to have access to the traditional forms liturgy and the sacraments because of our great love for Christ, our desire to honor him and lift our hearts up to Him. Our parish is bursting with life, both literally and figuratively. Like you, many of my friends and I are actually converts from protestantism. I'm sure we have much in common and are probably on the same side in many things. Also, we're having our second annual Octoberfest this weekend, don't miss out on all the homebrews.  :cheers:

That's how it's done! Brava, Iona!

We trads have a bad rap because there are trad cranks out there and they are pretty vocal. It's a serious problem for the trad "movement" and we simply have to drown them out with our own "voices," as they say. Most trads are great people. That's truly what I believe. But I also believe that one wouldn't know it from what one sees on the internet, especially at, um, certain "trad" forums where judgmentalism and nasty bitterness reign. We've got to reach out to and educate people -- especially Catholics who are in the position of being "gatekeepers" and those with a large internet or other sort of media presence.  I'd love it if Mr. Shea were to take you up on your offer and get to know trads in real life as opposed to just on the internet, where copy-paste wars, snark, and slander are far too prevalent.

I want for this forum to be the opposite of a place where those trad cranks congregate. I want FETradition to be taught here in its fullest -- which includes acknowledging God's Love and Mercy in addition to His Justice, and pushing for Acts of Charity and Mercy, understanding the importance of the affective world in its power to motivate, etc. If I can keep this place going, that is what this place will be, no matter how many people I have to ban for just not getting how important it is that we trads live up to the Faith's ideals -- even when posting anonymously on the internet -- and no matter how few posters remain.

OK, I'm done. I think I sorta segued there. LOL

A few years ago, I wrote to Mark Shea one on one but his anti-trad attitude.  He was perfectly kind and civil to me.  He does seem to have a problem with getting carried away, but he will apologize when he realizes he is wrong and one can appeal to reason with him.  That puts him ahead of a lot of people.
(10-08-2013, 07:18 PM)JayneK Wrote: [ -> ]A few years ago, I wrote to Mark Shea one on one but his anti-trad attitude.  He was perfectly kind and civil to me.  He does seem to have a problem with getting carried away, but he will apologize when he realizes he is wrong and one can appeal to reason with him.  That puts him ahead of a lot of people.

Indeed. I pray that's how it goes with Mr. Voris -- that Mr. Shea realizes he went really hyperbolic and unfair on him, they make up, Mr. Shea comes to realize that Mr. Voris is right about there being a serious crisis in the human element of the Church, and hops on board to fight it, using his presence and energy to help the traditionalist "movement." +

Any news yet??
Hubby said it was heated and that Shea looked weak. And it was recorded. :)
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