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It's kinda funny, as in maybe serendipitous, that I happened to come across a couple of old comments on Fr. Z's blog. I read these and wanted to cry. Literally. And I wanted to take some of these rad trads physically and throw them up against a wall and start whaling on them (how's that for charity? Note the "want" there...)

What I say about rad-trads destroying the traditional Catholic "movement," about their keeping people from the Church, about how they undo all my years of work is true, and here's a bit of proof. THIS is what I'm putting an end to. THIS is why I don't want rad-trads here any longer.

And the most frustrating thing about all of this is that the rad-trads who, in essence, destroyed my work and have kept people away from Tradition, never spoke for ME in the first place. I've never been a rad-trad and don't ever want to be one. That my work gets lumped in with their nastiness makes me ILL.

Christ, have mercy.



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Charlotte says:
3 April 2009 at 11:49 am


[html] Even if everything she (Christi) observes is correct and true, it doesn’t change my perception that some of the PEOPLE who attend the Latin mass ruin it for those of us who aren’t yet (or may never be) in the lifestyle/mindset of the Traditional Catholic. Most of the time, I see gross judgmentalism from these people. For example, a semi-recent comment on Fisheaters forum where someone proclaimed that the only Catholics going to heaven are those who shun Vatican II and attend Latin mass.[/html]


I keep reading Father Z’s blog for encouragement, but overall, I am left dumbfounded at the venom spewed at those who aren’t yet ready to embrace Traditionalism or who aren’t comfortable doing so. (And I say this as someone who IS attracted to Traditionalism, otherwise, I wouldn’t keep reading and thinking about it.)

As concerns depression – I have come to shun anti-depressants in my life, after being on and off of them for many years. I decided that what’s wrong with me has a spiritual basis, even if there are true and real non-spiritual factors playing into it. The result is that I suffer, yes. But I believe my suffering is meant to bring me closer to God and understand my true human nature (and failings). For the record, I am NOT one of those anti anti-depressant people, who thinks no one should use drugs like that. No way. I definitely needed them at times in my life, and there are some people who I would be scared for their lives if they weren’t on them. But for myself, I decided to take the risk of looking deeper and figuring it out. My path isn’t for everyone, but it’s a path I think some should consider. Modern psychology has become complicit in stagnating people, rather than helping them grow and move on.



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flyfree432 says:
26 February 2011 at 9:36 pm


Supertradmom,

We are getting utterly off topic, but “sin” may be “creepy”, however sinners are made in the image of God, and loved by Him. It is simply an inappropriate word to call people because of how most homosexuals are going to take it. This is not aimed at you – but anyone who has a conversation with a homosexual. Please never, ever engage a homosexual in conversation until you’ve taken the time to educate yourself, for the sake of their soul as well as your own. If you do not understand how they think and what they feel it is better for you to simply leave it alone than to end up saying something that is going to further harden their heart against God when they might have otherwise been open to hearing the message of salvation. You have to win the right to be heard – and calling people creepy does not do that. Effective ministry is relational. I recommend working with Courage. Tough love does not require someone to act like a jerk, and calling gay people creepy does nothing for evangelization. I know a good number of people with homosexual tendencies who now live celibate Catholic lives despite the things many Catholics have said to them.

Yes, there are homosexual groups that cannot be reasoned with, but there are many people we can reason with – and some of it is going to depend on our reaction to stuff like this.
 
It is like when I was looking at the Catholic Church.[html] I did not become Catholic for the longest time because of Catholics like those at the Fish Eaters website. Telling me how I was going to hell as a Protestant heretic did nothing to endear me to their message. It was the patience, friendship, and and love of so many Catholics at Scott Hahn’s Biblical Center and Phatmass.com to explain the faith and tackle my ideas head on with me that lead me home. Those who saw me as an enemy to be reckoned with for teaching that Catholics worship Mary could have lost me for the truth for good.[/html]



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SHAME on you, rad-trads, you dens of vipers, you whitewashed sepulchres, you Pharisees! SHAME on you! LOOK on His Holy Face and think of what you've done with your ego-driven theological debates, your turning the Faith into a philosophy, your lack of compassion for your fellow human beings, your apparent delight at the idea of souls burning in Hell, your really-not-joking jokes about "roasting heretics," your disgusting treatment of homosexuals, your racial animosity (some of you), your lies about me and Quis and Jayne and Clare and whoever else is on your little hate-list du jour, your constant twisting of my words to make you feel OK about engaging in gossip, your chasing souls away from Christ and from Tradition with your bitterness, your trying to destroy me and this apostolate, your slander, your angry, nasty talk about the Holy Father (I'm sure that line will get twisted into "Vox doesn't allow anyone to criticize the Pope!" I know how you work, you rad-trads! I've watched you for 15 years. I KNOW you.). LOOK at Him and beg forgiveness; He WILL give it to you if you're sincere. HE, not YOU, is the Judge.

[Image: holyfacejesus.jpg]

And SHAME on ME for putting my wish for free discussion from "all types of trads" above the salvation of souls and the and the good of the traditional Catholic "movement." Even to the detriment of my years of work. You abused the privilege of posting freely -- BIG time.

To anyone reading this who's stayed away from this forum because of nasty rad-trads, I hope you re-think it all and join up. If you know what traditional Catholicism is (see http://www.fisheaters.com/traditionalcatholicism.html), and you agree with it, and you also want no part of the rigorist, judgmental, nasty rad-trad types, then help make this a place you want to be by posting. This place is a mix of what we make it by posting and what I allow/disallow through moderation -- and my style of moderating that was "hands-off" and marked by putting free discourse as a top priority is finished. It didn't work.


So true, Vox.

Just as there are rules regarding what one can say about a pope, for example, there have to be, unfortunately, rules about what one can say to other posters or about people in general. It might seem a daunting task to 'legislate' such things, but starting with a principle, like judgmentalism, or condemning sins and not people, you can move forward to the process of weeding, in conversations, and if necessary, in posters. I commend you for posting this too, because it is your site and the site has to reflect your standards and limits. Thank you for doing this.
You know one would think Catholics would understand this going in. If we embrace being Catholic, this shouldn't be a problem. Being like Christ is dealing with sinners in a charitable way. Christ ate with hookers, con men (tax collectors),the poor, and the ones that were in charge. He saved His most blistering criticism for the ones in charge who knew everything. The woman at Jacob's well, He said go and sin no more, and she was a Samaritan. But every time a Pharisee set a trap for him he gored him with the spirit of the law not the letter. There is a lesson here for me and you all.

tim
(10-25-2013, 07:55 AM)Tim Wrote: [ -> ]You know one would think Catholics would understand this going in. If we embrace being Catholic, this shouldn't be a problem. Being like Christ is dealing with sinners in a charitable way. Christ ate with hookers, con men (tax collectors),the poor, and the ones that were in charge. He saved His most blistering criticism for the ones in charge who knew everything. The woman at Jacob's well, He said go and sin no more, and she was a Samaritan. But every time a Pharisee set a trap for him he gored him with the spirit of the law not the letter. There is a lesson here for me and you all.

tim

First, to Maldon, THANK you for being supportive. I need that right now, and appreciate it!

Tim, yes. "To whom much is given, much is required" -- and trads have been given everything. Much is required of us -- a lot more than what the rad-trads are coming up with, that's for sure.

You said, "One would think Catholics would understand this" -- and that some self-professed Catholics seem not to makes me wonder about their understanding of the Faith and their relationship with Christ. If my disallowing jugmentalism, rudeness, disrespectful criticism of the Holy Father, and a general lack of charity is "off-putting" or "controversial" to anyone, I really have no words for them. Except "well, bye." I can even see some posters at a certain other forum calling this move "scandalous" or seeing it as "evidence" that I'm not and have never been a traditional Catholic, and that now "FE is just another CAF." Again, I got no words. If believing everything on this page doesn't make one a trad, then what the heck does, in those people's eyes?

Actually, I think I know how they'd answer that. Here goes:  "What Vox doesn't understand is that it's more than about believing a few things and attending the TLM (as long as it's SSPX or sede only). It's about being holy. And being holy involves [this they won't say in these words, but it's what they'll mean if you know those folks!] being angry, being bitter, not wearing pants if you're female, being mean to homosexuals, hating Jews, interpreting EENS in a way that means that no one but rad-trads get to Heaven, etc." 

Several years ago, about 2007 or so, there was a group of us younger traditional Catholic men who were monarchists (the non-constitutional, legitimate claim to the throne type), attended the traditional Mass and looked to Chesterton and Belloc's ideas on economics. 

We called ourselves "radtrads", but it didn't have the connotation it has today.  After some dissuading occurrences, I and some of the others were sort of scattered by the winds. 

Imagine my surprised when a few years later, about 2012, I get back on fisheaters, and the word "radtrad" has taken on a negative connotation.

Unsure

Not cool.

Our form of "trad" we called "rad" because our faith led us to those other ideological conclusions.  But now it means just any traditionalist who is uncharitable.

sad(

I fear the word is lost.  A new name must be coined for us.  Maybe we can be gathered up again from the corners of the earth and brainstorm.

Well, that sucks, LoneWolf! I didn't invent the term, just so's ya know!

Here's what the Rhyming Dictionary has for "rhymes with bad" -- but none of 'em seem to work. Alas!:

1 syllable:
ad, add, brad, cad, chad, chadd, clad, dad, fad, flad, gad, gadd, glad, gladd, grad, had, hadd, hlad, khad, lad, ladd, mad, madd, nad, pad, plaid, rad, radde, sad, scad, schad, shad, shadd, tad, tadd, thad, vlad

2 syllables:
and had, arm pad, arvad, ayyad, forbad, hip pad, hot pad, i had, knee pad, lake chad, launch pad, like mad, mirad, mossad, mouse pad, riyad, riyadh, round scad, rug pad, scratch pad, shabad, shahrzad, sketch pad, soap pad, stamp pad, they had, thigh pad, want ad, wrist pad

3 syllables:
allis shad, body pad, carpet pad, ciudad, cleaning pad, deadbeat dad, elbow pad, heating pad, launching pad, lily pad, mattress pad, message pad, raving mad, river shad, shoulder pad, sociedad, writing pad

4 syllables:
mackerel scad, mackerel shad, newspaper ad, scantily clad, scouring pad

5 syllables:
capital of chad

7 syllables:
common american shad
(10-25-2013, 09:24 AM)LoneWolfRadTrad Wrote: [ -> ]Several years ago, about 2007 or so, there was a group of us younger traditional Catholic men who were monarchists (the non-constitutional, legitimate claim to the throne type), attended the traditional Mass and looked to Chesterton and Belloc's ideas on economics. 

We called ourselves "radtrads", but it didn't have the connotation it has today.  After some dissuading occurrences, I and some of the others were sort of scattered by the winds. 

Imagine my surprised when a few years later, about 2012, I get back on fisheaters, and the word "radtrad" has taken on a negative connotation.

Unsure

Not cool.

Our form of "trad" we called "rad" because our faith led us to those other ideological conclusions.  But now it means just any traditionalist who is uncharitable.

sad(

I fear the word is lost.  A new name must be coined for us.  Maybe we can be gathered up again from the corners of the earth and brainstorm.

Paleo Catholics, PaleoCath?

medievalist?

What is worse, I'm wondering, the uncharitable traditionalist, or the traditionalist who is obsessed with pointing out uncharitable traditionalists?  I mean, truly, think about it.

Alot of elements of  the faith sound to modern ears as uncharitable and judgemental. That is, the truths of the Faith themselves seem uncharitable and judgemental.  Therefor, a common criticismof traditional Catholicism is that the folks involved therein are uncharitable and judgemental.  Its the "offense of the gospel" itself. An unfair and incorrect overgeneralization that any christian, let alone traditional Catholic, will experience from the moment of taking their faith seriously.

So a poster on Fr Z's blog thought fisheaters members were meanies. Pardon my yawn.

Just speak/preach the truth in charity and leave it at that. Fight the urge that caught the "sons of thunder" in the gospels, and fight the urge to let the unjust claims of being a meanie cause you to put the faith under a bushel basket

Methinks thou dost protest too much.

DD
"Scouring pad trad" is apropos..
(10-25-2013, 10:27 AM)DustinsDad Wrote: [ -> ]What is worse, I'm wonering, the uncharitable traditionalist, or the traditionalist who is obsessed with pointing out uncharitable traditionalists?  I mean, truly, think about it.

Alot of elements of  the faith sound to modern ears as uncharitable and judgemental. That is, the truths of the Faith themselves seem uncharitable and judgemental.  Therefor, a common criticismof traditional Catholicism is that the folks involved therein are uncharitable and judgemental.  Its the "offense of the gospel" itself. An unfair and incorrect overgeneralization that any christian, let alone traditional Catholic, will experience from the moment of taking their faith seriously.

So a poster on Fr Z's blog thought fisheaters members were meanies. Pardon my yawn.

Just speak/preach the truth in charity and leave it at that. Fight the urge that caught the "sons of thunder" in the gospels, and fight the urge to let the unjust claims of being a meanie cause you to put the faith under a bushel basket

Methinks thou dost protest too much.

DD

It's not just "a poster on Fr Z's blog" (there were two, BTW); this is how FE is too often perceived. I know. I look around, I get mail. I'm not talking about necessary judgment or the "scandal" of the Gospel; I'm talking about assholes. I'm not talking about watering down the Gospel; I'm talking about not letting it get diluted by poison. I'm also not talking about hiding lights under bushels; I'm talking about not letting my  light get blown out by some rad-trad blow-hard.

And I'm not "obssessed" with pointing out uncharitable traditionalists; I don't "point them out" at all (you ever hear me put someone's name to any of this?); I ban them. They hurt "the cause." I think that's something to be deeply concerned about. We're talking about souls. And on a personal level, if it were your work that was being made useless because of some loudmouth jerks, you'd likely want them gone, too. I think I have a right to be a tad angry about what's been going on. If it were happening to you, you might be a tad angry, also. I mean, truly, think about it.

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