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(11-06-2013, 02:10 PM)Roger Buck Wrote: [ -> ]Belloc was extremely pious as a child. Reading him as a 12 year old can take one's breath away (I'll try to find something).


From a biography of Belloc. Anyone ever meet a twelve year old kid like this:

Quote: [Belloc had} a piety that was surely unusual in boys of his age. He also appeared to have inklings of mystical theology beyond that which one would expect of a boy who was not yet thirteen. Commenting in a letter to his mother of how he found it easier to 'pray beautifully' on days when the school chapel was 'all a beautiful grey' in the evening light, and when 'the sanctuary lamp looks so bright and yet lights up so small a space', he expounded on the 'essence of God' in beauty and love:

I think that beauty and love, and things which people generally look down upon as not stoic or heroic, are the essence of heroism and manly feeling, and this because they are the essence of God as we hear of Him and understand Him. I felt this in chapel today, that the light feeling which proceeds from love or something beautiful, is not a feeling that will pass, but the happiness of angels in the love of God.

Have you ever felt that in one of those beautiful churches, Notre Dame of St Ouen, how one loves the beauty around one so much that one is convinced that it was the grace of God, as well as man, who helped to build that church?



(11-06-2013, 01:19 PM)christulsa123 Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-06-2013, 12:43 PM)LoneWolfRadTrad Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-06-2013, 12:18 PM)christulsa123 Wrote: [ -> ]I'm for Belloc!  I especially liked The Crisis of Civilization.

His writings may be largely responsible for an effort in the 20th/21st century to find a Catholic middle ground between capitalism and socialism.

Not a middle ground, a rejection of both.

Yes a middle ground. He rejected socialism to the left, capitalism to the right, and argued for distributism which is in the middle. Virtus stat in medio.

No.  Distributism is a continuation of the system present before capitalism and socialism came along.  A "middle ground" is a new place established between two older things.  But in Distributism's case, both capitalism and socialism came AFTER it. 
(11-06-2013, 01:05 PM)jake-the-rake Wrote: [ -> ]The power of the State must be invoked for restoring economic freedom just as it has been invoked for destroying economic freedom.

Hilaire Belloc, The Restoration of Property, 1936

Amen

Although many people fear this means big government.

I think it only means BIG regulation - real law based on real morality to protect the innocent ...

(11-07-2013, 01:22 AM)LoneWolfRadTrad Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-06-2013, 01:19 PM)christulsa123 Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-06-2013, 12:43 PM)LoneWolfRadTrad Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-06-2013, 12:18 PM)christulsa123 Wrote: [ -> ]I'm for Belloc!  I especially liked The Crisis of Civilization.

His writings may be largely responsible for an effort in the 20th/21st century to find a Catholic middle ground between capitalism and socialism.

Not a middle ground, a rejection of both.

Yes a middle ground. He rejected socialism to the left, capitalism to the right, and argued for distributism which is in the middle. Virtus stat in medio.

No.  Distributism is a continuation of the system present before capitalism and socialism came along.  A "middle ground" is a new place established between two older things.  But in Distributism's case, both capitalism and socialism came AFTER it. 

I'm not sure where you're getting your definition, but I was using the term in the sense that distributism is in the middle between extremes.

But we can use your definition. Capitalism (began in 16th century) and socialism (began in early 19th century) are older than distributism (a specific economic theory proposed by Belloc and Chesterton at the turn of the 20th century) established as a new place between capitalism and socialism. Distributism is a continuation of Catholic economic principles from the Middle Ages, but as a specific theory and movement it is something new.

Certain Catholic intellectuals of the 1960s and 1970s owed a lot to Belloc in their leaving behind classical liberalism/US conservatism.  Bozell, Jr. wrote an excellent essay for his magazine that he published back then on Belloc's The Servile State.

Roger, you may remember your thread from long ago about Christendom College.  Those people are the heirs of that particular group.

(11-07-2013, 07:33 PM)Jacob Wrote: [ -> ]Certain Catholic intellectuals of the 1960s and 1970s owed a lot to Belloc in their leaving behind classical liberalism/US conservatism.  Bozell, Jr. wrote an excellent essay for his magazine that he published back then on Belloc's The Servile State.

Roger, you may remember your thread from long ago about Christendom College.  Those people are the heirs of that particular group.

Yes, Jacob. That chain completely fascinates me Belloc >>> Chesterton >>> Wilhelmsen>>>Bozell>>>Triumph magazine>>> Warren H. Carroll >>> Christendom College.

What Warren H. Carroll did - writing Catholic history - owes so much to Belloc.

The whole focus on Christendom owes so much to Belloc and Europe and the Faith.

So far this thread has focussed mainly on Distributism. But Belloc was responsible for this and so much more. There is a whole complex of ideas around Catholic History and Christendom that goes back to Belloc.

Would be very interested to know if that Bozell article is online or has been reprinted somewhere on Belloc's Servile State. It's not in that big Triumph book, I think? (Which incidentally I love but haven't yet finished reading).


I came upon Belloc through Chesterton... and when I discovered Chesterton I suddenly started to believe conspiracy theories... How is it that I had never been exposed to that wonderful writer? George B. Shaw yes and GK. Chesterton no?!

This man yes:

[video=youtube]hQvsf2MUKRQ[/video]

This other man who had been outspoken against Eugenics when Eugenics was the rage no:

[video=youtube]N-iT12qcrbg[/video]

BTW... Very interesting Youtube which (especially in the second half)  also broaches the topic of Capitalism / Socialism... and connects them to Eugenics.

So for me first came Chesterton... and I stayed up nights enthralled, by what I was reading... enthralled except when he discussed distributism... which okay was interesting, but to my mind secondary, and probably out of touch... out of date...

Instead, I became aware that how we are economically structured, has a helluva lot to do with... well you name it.

So that led me to Belloc... and distributism (The Servile State) and from there to many of his scholarly works, for example "Europe and the Faith"...

As Roger Buck suggests, Belloc is much much more than distributism... but given how our societies are being run, that topic is at the top of my list.

[video=youtube]XztrTGXl29U[/video]

The breakdown of modern societies has many interconnected causes... What happened to the family? What happened to proper (warm and civil) communities? Many of the answers are in Chesterton and Belloc (Chesterbelloc).
(11-07-2013, 10:29 PM)Roger Buck Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, Jacob. That chain completely fascinates me Belloc >>> Chesterton >>> Wilhelmsen>>>Bozell>>>Triumph magazine>>> Warren H. Carroll >>> Christendom College.

What Warren H. Carroll did - writing Catholic history - owes so much to Belloc.

The whole focus on Christendom owes so much to Belloc and Europe and the Faith.

So far this thread has focussed mainly on Distributism. But Belloc was responsible for this and so much more. There is a whole complex of ideas around Catholic History and Christendom that goes back to Belloc.

Would be very interested to know if that Bozell article is online or has been reprinted somewhere on Belloc's Servile State. It's not in that big Triumph book, I think? (Which incidentally I love but haven't yet finished reading).

I have the big Triumph book too, but I haven't gotten too far into that yet except for skimming and reading certain articles.  Bozell's article is reprinted in his collection of speeches, articles, and essays that he put together in the mid-80s, Mustard Seeds: A Conservative Becomes a Catholic.  You can buy it online.  I bought my copy new through the Christendom Press website.  It is unfortunate that so much of his stuff and Wilhelmsen's is not online and therefore ignored.
@Jake: if you read The Servile State you should read The Crisis of Civilization as well.  It continues his theme of how we are entering a new age of slavery in post-Christendom
(11-08-2013, 11:49 AM)drummerboy Wrote: [ -> ]@Jake: if you read The Servile State you should read The Crisis of Civilization as well.  It continues his theme of how we are entering a new age of slavery in post-Christendom

Thank you drummerboy!

Sometimes I feel like writing a letter to the Vatican and asking them to consider erecting a statue to these two great men.
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