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I received a gmail from CAF this week. AFTER THEY "BANNED ME FOR LIFE" for telling a poster who kept asking why the Church thought it necessary to form a new Mass..........with the following words: "They wanted a Mass that was more palatable to non-Catholics" & ( that is word-for word. I saved my post.). Now they "value me" or more importantly they value my money:

They are sending effusively complimentary  gmails to me (they're valued 'member') asking for money. That takes a lot of nerve.......or........ignorance. I'm not sure which. Is anyone else receiving pleas for funds to ex-members whom they considered quite "valueable".

They did that to me after they banned me.

Something I've always wondered is: why is it that churches aren't packed with ex-Protestants who decided to go Catholic because of the way the new Mass is done if the new Mass was designed to attract and appeal to them?
(01-10-2014, 12:15 PM)dark lancer Wrote: [ -> ]Something I've always wondered is: why is it that churches aren't packed with ex-Protestants who decided to go Catholic because of the way the new Mass is done if the new Mass was designed to attract and appeal to them?

(01-10-2014, 11:48 AM)JoniCath Wrote: [ -> ]"They wanted a Mass that was more palatable to non-Catholics" & ( that is word-for word. I saved my post.).

I can answer in part that question, I think.

I walked in on a conversation between two mom in our homeschool coop the other day. One of the moms recently "split" from her church community for one reason or another (I am unclear as to the why), and was discussing her church "options"  with another mom who attends a different protestant church.

They were discussing the virtues and merits of things like the music ministry, children's programs, etc, I asked if I could offer a suggestion. Why don't you, I asked, pick a church based on what they believe? Things like music, children's programs and the "extras" are changeable, even if you have to be the agent of that change based on what is needed at the time. But if you find a church that  teaches what you believe, you will always have a home there no matter how awful the other parts are.

They both looked at me like a grew horns. Then the one who recently split from her church - a woman who I know for a fact grew up at least nominally Catholic - simply said, "That's easy for you, you're Catholic". The other just shrugged. She herself isn't Catholic, but her husband is. Her brother-in-law is a priest.

My experience has been that, in the protestant mindset, it's often about what you get in terms of services that is a deciding factor in whether you stay or go. It's often not about the teaching anymore, ironically enough, although it's over teaching that they continue to fragment.

I think that we as Catholics, as we continue to secularize and approach the protestant attitude more and more, are leaving in droves in part of this mindset. We simply pale in comparison to most protestant churches in that regard. I know people who fill the Catholic pews every Sunday, but send their kids to the pentecostal church for religion classes during the week instead of the CCD, because the Catholic version is "too dry" and not as fun.

Clearly, that's a problem.

When we stripped the Mass into what it is today, we became to the mind's eye just another church, just another choice among many. Most people don't care about things like the Real Presence, but care that there's child care during the service so they can enjoy the nice music and hear a good sermon.
Quote:CAF: iS There Nothing Beneath Them?

Answer:  No.

Above all, do not expect them to model "Charity," even in the frankly perverted way they define that term, an interpretation which has very little in common with either St. Paul's Letter to the Corinthians or anything in approved Catholic doctrine over the last 2,000 years.

And that is straight out of the mouth of  a highly placed source, by the way.

Make no mistake:  CAF is first and foremost a commercial business.  Truth, justice, and charity are all subordinate to that. 

And since, Joni, the Protestant market is their favorite market, as well as the market most attracted to CAF, your comment about "palatable to non-Catholics" (even though I agree with it) does not fit with the CAF commercial game plan.  The hypocrisy and sacrilege is that they call their business "an apostolate."  (Not.)
When you get kicked off their forum, you don't get kicked off their mailing list. Obviously.
(01-10-2014, 02:40 PM)Miriam_M Wrote: [ -> ]Make no mistake:  CAF is first and foremost a commercial business.  Truth, justice, and charity are all subordinate to that. 

Absolutely, and all of EWTN and most Catholic radio and TV "apostolates" are a money making racket. It's enough to make one lose one's faith. I said it before and I'll say it again: If you beg for a living (which Catholic Answers does all the time) then you must live like a beggar. That means NOT making six figure salaries. I'm not against lay people taking an active role in evangelizing... or making extra money writing a book here and there, but please, oh please, keep your day job! 
Well, since this is the latest CAF thread, rather than dig up the other one, I'll just post this here, I was lurking over at CAF, and this thread caught my eye, no surprise the OP was banned, and the threadwas locked, but what I find annoyingly funny is that the OP  posted 3 links, one to his blog and the two other to Papal documents, and the moderator decided to remove them. The problem is that the 2 posters after the initial one quote the OP post and you can access the links by clicking on the quotes.  I just thought this was  very funny, but annoying at the same time, it speaks volumes of the bizarre and erratic moderating that goes on over there. If they wanna censor those links, fine, just be consistent!

Here's the thread:
http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=850999
(01-10-2014, 03:55 PM)Juanthetuba Wrote: [ -> ]it speaks volumes of the bizarre and erratic moderating that goes on over there. If they wanna censor those links, fine, just be consistent!

Juan, they will never be.  Their official policy is that each moderator gets to determine his or her own standards for his or her own forum, including reasons for suspensions, bannings, etc.  There is no consistent moderation policy there.  That would be bad enough, but in addition, some moderators, over their own forums, are also inconsistent regarding their own practices. Insulting Poster A gets permission to insult aggressively, and often; far more charitable Poster B is suspended for 2-4 weeks for a post that could be dubiously labeled vaguely uncharitable and to a minor degree. (By the same moderator in both cases.)  They moderate by whim, on emotion, and without restraint.  Self-control on their own parts is not a trait they value or emulate.  The evidence is abundant and over many, many years, from scores of posters sharing moderator PM's with each other. The moderation there is very juvenile and very unjust.
(01-10-2014, 11:48 AM)JoniCath Wrote: [ -> ]I received a gmail from CAF this week. AFTER THEY "BANNED ME FOR LIFE" for telling a poster who kept asking why the Church thought it necessary to form a new Mass..........with the following words: "They wanted a Mass that was more palatable to non-Catholics" & ( that is word-for word. I saved my post.). Now they "value me" or more importantly they value my money:

They are sending effusively complimentary  gmails to me (they're valued 'member') asking for money. That takes a lot of nerve.......or........ignorance. I'm not sure which. Is anyone else receiving pleas for funds to ex-members whom they considered quite "valueable".

Yikes, I'm guilty of the same thing. I don't delete accounts, typically; I just ban (there are reasons for this). But still having an account existing, even though that account is banned, means that some folks who've been banned will get the (very rare) mailings I send out. I find it embarrassing, actually (and I assume that it must tick banned folks off!)

(01-10-2014, 11:48 AM)JoniCath Wrote: [ -> ]I received a gmail from CAF this week. AFTER THEY "BANNED ME FOR LIFE" for telling a poster who kept asking why the Church thought it necessary to form a new Mass..........with the following words: "They wanted a Mass that was more palatable to non-Catholics" & ( that is word-for word. I saved my post.). Now they "value me" or more importantly they value my money:

They are sending effusively complimentary  gmails to me (they're valued 'member') asking for money. That takes a lot of nerve.......or........ignorance. I'm not sure which. Is anyone else receiving pleas for funds to ex-members whom they considered quite "valueable".

Yipes, that is an observation one could make based in experience.   I mean to say in an debate forum one can voice their observations and especially so it one grew up in the Tridentine Mass.   You can compare homilies even between those times.  I heard an archbishop on a recording  rail on about liberal clergy that deny basic foundational Catholic beliefs because they are modernists and humanists within the clergy.  When I heard the date that is what struck me:  1948 A.D or so.    I see many who think they are upholding the Church who see themselves as the level headed rational voices of reason and some approach to be "the level headed rational voice of reason."   But there is more to it than just  because they let science dominant over matters of Faith.   For them the fact that science opens up an cause and effect without any mention of angelic forces, pure angelic spirits; , and some even God, allows them do away with the same.   Man is his god to them in a real sense of the words but  they would strongly protest that.  Off they go denying Original Sin, the effects of sin in general, atonement for & reparation for sin is thrown out the window of Faith,   The window that they do view the world in does away with conforming to God.  Nope for them Man has to conform to the things of this world and knowingly or unknowlying maybe to the prince that rules this world.

    The Great Catholic Theologians who expounded on Morals and Ethics are seen as obsolete thinkers, particularly  the Great Moral Theologians of the early 20th century who were influenced and reflected  St. Alphonsus Liguori.   Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI  announcement that he had to retire because of illness were accompanied with news of a "gay lobby" of Cardinals.     I know the Holy Father was sick, sick to his stomach.  

      I post on CAF and  I received well by many or so it would appear.  I have a lot of friends.   Others make wide accusations about  a particular type of clergyman who the Church describes as priests who  are endowed with piety, knowledge, prudence and integrity of life.  These stand  for Faith and oppose the modernists and the humanists that are trying to make a social club for themselves out of the Church.   Fr. Malachi Martin  used literary license to paint a very accurate picture of  the world today,  an almost world-wide society of death.  A society where those who are helplessly dependent  the sick, the very young, and the old are willfully subjected to murder by names of abortion and euthanasia.

     Deny yourself is replaced with indulge yourself,  pick up your personal cross is replaced with lets throw down any and all personal crosses, and follow Me i.e. Christ is replaced with we rather follow the prince of this world.   This type of stuff is present even in the clergy.  

      Most Catholics believe they must remain humbly silent and never voice any personal observations.   True we must remain humble but  I never will support  tyranny.   One would think that the Mass in the vernacular and  the relaxation of communications in Latin  would promote uniformity within Church.   That didn't happen.   You read what is  announced in Italy  by various clergy  does not reflect what is announced in the USA.  

      Ever ride along improved surface dirt roads on Eglin Air Force Base in Florida in the early morning?   If you have you may have seen coral snakes scampering away at a fantastic speed.  I'm 59 and I worked outside in remote and the most beautiful places sometimes.   Christ said to his Apostles they should be as wise as serpents and harmless as doves.  To me it means that  He knew His Apostles would face persecution and even death in their missions to spread the Word.   I believe that He meant that they had to scurry away in the manner snakes run away and to be harmless like doves to survive long enough to complete their Missions.

     "Faith and the Future" published in 1969 by Cardinal Ratzinger has an article called "The Church will Become Small."     It is a prophetic piece.  God is toughening the believers who know the Church and also plainly see and feel  the persecution of the Church from outside and within.

      I see a clear change even within the last 10-15 years at CAF.   I never took but a handful of graduate level work period & am completely lacking such as  Psychology of Pastoral Care & Counseling nor the advanced courses.     There are priests who completely contradict the teachings of other priests publicly.   And  I mean clearly opposite views.

       I feel that maybe my turn may come too.  I feel that most Catholics just will not debate Church matters.  Really  I don't think that matters of Faith are not open to debate.   I like the commentaries of those who reflect historical Catholic values.

       I feel the greatest sympathy for the OP's position in his thread.   I see and feel it viscerally even though  I don't know much.

Praying for the  Church and the clergy,
MC
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