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Full Version: Pope Francis encourages Muslims to find hope in the Koran
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From Louie Veracchio's blog Harvesting the Fruit






Essentially Pope Francis placed the Koran on the same level as the Bible.

God Help Us All  [Image: sad.gif]
(01-25-2014, 10:39 AM)austenbosten Wrote: [ -> ]Essentially Pope Francis placed the Koran on the same level as the Bible.

No, that is not what the Holy Father did.

Rather, he was discussing how refugees should meet their own emotional needs and those of others.  He was encouraging them to rely on their religious faith.

The Holy Father did not say that the Holy Bible is "on the same level" as the Koran.

Louis Verrecchio is a satan (that is, an accuser of the brethren, cf. Apocalypse 12:10) and a mocker, on a straight trajectory for sedevacantism.  Not good reading for a Catholic, austenbosten.
It's getting harder and harder to take the Catholic faith seriously.  The Church has definitely changed with the times. 
Mr Verecchio is a great man.

He has helped many people I know come back to the Faith and strengthen them in Caritas.
(01-25-2014, 11:34 AM)Clare Brigid Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-25-2014, 10:39 AM)austenbosten Wrote: [ -> ]Essentially Pope Francis placed the Koran on the same level as the Bible.

No, that is not what the Holy Father did.

Rather, he was discussing how refugees should meet their own emotional needs and those of others.  He was encouraging them to rely on their religious faith.

The Holy Father did not say that the Holy Bible is "on the same level" as the Koran.

Louis Verrecchio is a satan (that is an accuser of the brethren, cf. Apocalypse 12:10) and a mocker, on a straight trajectory for sedevacantism.  Not good reading for a Catholic, austenbosten.

Hmmm...

That's a very strong accusation there. You seem to already not like the man and I don't read any mockery in his post, to me this is someone serious. No mocker pleads that his readers "pray and fast" for Holy Father.

Your definition of "satan" needs re-thinking, if you are gonna hurl accusations, then one could accuse Holy Father of acting like a Freemason with that relative statement. I disagree that he is a Mason and I disagree that he is thoroughly a relativist from several of his statements. However, this act is can very well indeed be considered relativist by not taking the opportunity to proclaim the Truth in Jesus Christ and the Catholic Church.



As for HF not saying that.

Pope Francis Wrote:"...Those that are Christian, with the Bible, and those that are Muslim, with the Quran. The faith that your parents instilled in you will always help you move on.”

He is pretty much mimicking the same thing that His Eminence; Cardinal Dolan when he said to a group of Moslems "Don't lose your faith". This is placing Sacred Scripture on the same level as the Koran. If this is all about ecumenal gathering and helping of refugees, than perhaps Holy Father needs to re-read what he said

Pope Francis Wrote:The Church is not a shop, she is not a humanitarian agency, the Church is not an NGO. The Church is sent to bring Christ and his Gospel to all. She does not bring herself — whether small or great, strong or weak, the Church carries Jesus and should be like Mary when she went to visit Elizabeth.
There isn't sufficient information to make a personal judgment about these statements. It's a two minute clip consisting of snippets of the Holy Father's words. I caught "carrying the cross with others" and "For the Christians it's the Bible, for the Muslims it's the Koran." How you infer from this that the Pope is making the Koran equal to the Bible, I don't know. First we would need a complete transcript of the speech an then an accurate translation.

To add some additional thoughts, and this will shock some of you, is that the Quran (Koran) does contain truth. Even a broken clock is right two times of the day and yes, even the Qur'an get's some things right. One particular is that the Quran supports the Virgin Birth of Jesus. Furthermore, the Quran contains passages on persevering through struggles and trials, and in the context of the Pope's audience this may be what he was referring to. He visited these people who have suffered, if he encourages them to trust in God and persevere in a way that is shared between our Faiths, then what is wrong with that? Do you honestly take this to mean he is suggesting they stay Muslim? I really wonder how many of you internet inquisitors would at this moment start explaining to these people why the Quran is Satanic and how they must get baptized. I really wonder how many of you evangelize on a day to day basis in your own neighborhoods, and yet you cast the Holy Father's words in the worst possible light.

Grow some faith, man
He did say the word "always" which usually means, well "always". Muslims, be good Muslims". That is what he seems to be saying. And how can the Church not bring herself, as if the Gospel can be separated from the Church? The Church is the guardian of the Gospel but there's more to the faith than just the content of the Gospel as written in the New Testament. Todays Churchmen seem almost embarrassed with the sacraments and anything that smacks of more than a protestant style "just Jesus" Christianity. They have forgotten the fullness of the Faith.
(01-25-2014, 12:29 PM)mortify Wrote: [ -> ]There isn't sufficient information to make a personal judgment about these statements.

From a quote, that basically says that 'the faith of your parents, be it Muslim or Christian, will help you move on' pretty much is very telling.


It's a two minute clip consisting of snippets of the Holy Father's words. I caught "carrying the cross with others" and "For the Christians it's the Bible, for the Muslims it's the Koran." How you infer from this that the Pope is making the Koran equal to the Bible, I don't know.


Refer to Mr. Veracchio's post from my original post in the hyperlink


First we would need a complete transcript of the speech an then an accurate translation.


We don't need a complete transcript to get the very same troubling quote, you are simply trying to dodge this troublesome quote from Holy Father. As for an accurate translation, if this is indeed another "poor translation" than this is even more incriminating of His Holiness for despite a year of horrendously bad translations (which I have defended in the past), our beloved Sancta Papa cares not if his words are mistranslation and leads many astray and confused.


To add some additional thoughts, and this will shock some of you, is that the Quran (Koran) does contain truth. Even a broken clock is right two times of the day and yes, even the Qur'an get's some things right. One particular is that the Quran supports the Virgin Birth of Jesus. Furthermore, the Quran contains passages on persevering through struggles and trials, and in the context of the Pope's audience this may be what he was referring to.


As yes more ecumenism, because how wonderful it has worked over the last 50 years. Yes there is truth in the Koran, regarding the Virgin Birth, but you cannot look at the truth and completely be blind to the obvious blasphemies and falsehoods. The Koran also outwardly rejects: Jesus Christ's divinity, Jesus Christ as being the only Begotten Son of God, the Holy Trinity and Jesus Christ's Death and Resurrection. Perhaps you missed that in the Koran.

Also we are not discussing as to why or how Holy Father said this troubling quote; we are discussing what Holy Father said and how it is disturbing to say the least.



He visited these people who have suffered, if he encourages them to trust in God and persevere in a way that is shared between our Faiths, then what is wrong with that? Do you honestly take this to mean he is suggesting they stay Muslim?


Do you realize that you have considerably contradicted yourself?




I really wonder how many of you internet inquisitors would at this moment start explaining to these people why the Quran is Satanic and how they must get baptized. I really wonder how many of you evangelize on a day to day basis in your own neighborhoods, and yet you cast the Holy Father's words in the worst possible light.

Grow some faith, man

Ad hominems will not do well.

Nowhere are we attacking His Holiness as a person, we are merely concerned about this quote and how it will be perceived by the world and the Church. In case you haven't notice, there is a crisis amidst our Beloved Church and one of the most damning as said by our former pontiff Pope-Emeritus Benedict XVI is a heresy of "relativism and indifferentism" We are troubled by this quote and we wish to bring to light this remark from Holy Father.

If you cannot handle this, then by all means. Please await on NCRegiter for the next installment of Jimmy Akin's growing line of articles 12 Reasons Pope Francis didn't mean what he said, despite him saying it
(01-25-2014, 11:35 AM)SpiderDweeb Wrote: [ -> ]It's getting harder and harder to take the Catholic faith seriously.  The Church has definitely changed with the times. 

It has become the "Church of Nice"

Pope Francis is a Public Relations pope. I don't think he is any kind of theologian on par with Benedict XVI. In my opinion, Pope Francis is more concerned about feeding the poor than keeping souls out of hell.

St. Teresa of Avila was granted a vision in which she saw souls falling into hell “like snowflakes.”  Shocked Shocked Shocked
(01-25-2014, 01:12 PM)Asperges me Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-25-2014, 11:35 AM)SpiderDweeb Wrote: [ -> ]It's getting harder and harder to take the Catholic faith seriously.  The Church has definitely changed with the times. 

It has become the "Church of Nice"

Pope Francis is a Public Relations pope. I don't think he is any kind of theologian on par with Benedict XVI. In my opinion, Pope Francis is more concerned about feeding the poor than keeping souls out of hell.

St. Teresa of Avila was granted a vision in which she saw souls falling into hell “like snowflakes.”   Shocked Shocked Shocked

Naw, that's a private revalation it holds ZERO credibility or barring on Catholics. We have a reasonable hope that all [people] are Saved.

As for Pope Francis, I don't think caricatures of him are fair either. While he has said a lot of troubling comments. He has said this:

Papa Wrote:"When one does not profess Jesus Christ, one professes the worldliness of the devil."

"We need to avoid the spiritual sickness of a church that is wrapped up in its own world: when a church becomes like this, it grows sick. It is true that going out on to the street implies the risk of accidents happening, as they would to any ordinary man or woman. But if the church stays wrapped up in itself, it will age. And if I had to choose between a wounded church that goes out on to the streets and a sick, withdrawn church, I would definitely choose the first one."

"A church that limits itself to just carrying out administrative duties, caring for its tiny flock, is a church that in the long run will get sick. The pastor who isolates himself is not a true pastor of sheep, but a 'hairdresser' for sheep who spends his time putting curlers on them instead of going to look for others.Today we have one in the pen and 99 we need to go looking for."

Amen!
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