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Full Version: Bp. Athanasius Schneider: Who are/is the 'poorest of the poor'?
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There are no longer camel caravans from Kazhakstan to Rome.  He's paying for something there. What I don't know.

tim
(01-27-2014, 04:49 PM)Freudentaumel Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-27-2014, 02:29 PM)Chestertonian Wrote: [ -> ]I don't know.  I hate bad liturgy as much as the next person on here, and I believe that the Church ought to lead the way in the pro-life movement, but to me this seems like odd. 

I don't like the false dichotomy in the Church where Catholic groups are either into traddy liturgies & Marching for Life OR they can help run soup kitchens and care for the poor.  Here in New York City, the more liberal churches run the food pantries and the more traditional churches have beautiful liturgies and no apostalates.  Why not both?  I don't understand why this is so hard. 

Indeed God Himself became the "poorest of the poor" for us, but it doesn't excuse us from the corporal works of mercy.
I agree. But that is something we Trads have to fix as certainly we won't get the modernists to have good liturgy.

Perhaps that is also one of the reasons the Franciscans of the Immaculate get attacked so badly. They were the living proof of the falsehood of that dichotomy. And some people would rather keep the dichotomy in order to easier dismiss the Trads.

Traditional parishes already have good liturgy.  So you'd think that with a more reverent celebration of the Mass and the increased graces that are available to all who worthily partake, you'd also see more of a focus on the corporal and spiritual works of mercy.  In the pro-life movement there is some focus on the poor, as the women who often need crisis pregnancy support are poor.  But for the most part, parish life at a traditional parish is vertical (focusing on the Mass as a sacrifice, emphasis on prayer, mortification and love of God) but lacks the horizontal, probably because this was over-emphasized after Vatican II and people see it as a Vatican II error when in fact fraternal charity and the "preferential option for the poor" ought to flow naturally from the Mass and one's prayer life.  When you combine the vertical and the horizontal you have the cross... but take one away from the other and you just have lines--an imperfect vision of God's plan for the Church
Would I support selling the riches of the Vatican to support the poor?

No, that would be very shortsighted.

However, if I had a couple of thousand dollars to buy something beautiful for my parish and I met someone who was homeless I would give the money to the homeless person (in a way that it couldn't be blown on drugs or drink - eg., pay for rent).

Would Jesus prefer us to spend time in adoration or in helping the poor?

Why not do both?
(01-27-2014, 04:51 PM)Freudentaumel Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-27-2014, 02:31 PM)Prie dieu Wrote: [ -> ]He will be a cardinal some day soon.  And I honestly would not be surprised if he also became Pope.
He will never be anything else than an Auxiliary Bishop in Kazhakstan, of that I'm sure.
 

I completely agree. This man is orthodox, he firmly believes in reverent liturgy and the Real Presence in the Eucharist which means Kazhakstan will forever be his home where he can safely preach his dangerous orthodoxy in the hinterlands far away from the rest of the Church. I think Cardinal Roger Mahony has a better chance of being Pope,or maybe Cardinal Schonborn,but not this guy.
It is a nice day dream that he might be a cardinal or pope but the way things are looking now, it is very very unlikely.

I think that his reinterpreation of the 'poorest of the poor', or 'preferential option for the poor' as being Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament is very interesting, but doubt he will get any significant traction out of it from the liberals that are currently in control.

People are wondering why our Church is so polarized... this is because one side is small and has such few resources that they are trying to use them to maintain the faith and liturgy in the face of constant opposition, the other side cares little about doctrine or dogma and so uses the social institutions of the Church to justify their salaries and involvment.

It would be nice to return to a Church where there is both a traditional liturgy and active social services, and in some small parishes, this does happen, but the reality is that the Church is foremost about the objective worship of God, charity to the poor flows from this.

I am starting to wonder if the answer to the mess in the Church is to abandon the schools and hospitals and universities, because most of the employees have lost the faith and by taking public government money the Church has to bend to its will.

Perhaps it is better to divest of these anchors around the Church's neck so that a true restoration might begin a new.... as the SSPX example shows, when the true faith returns to a community, schools etc will be created anew.
(01-28-2014, 03:43 PM)winoblue1 Wrote: [ -> ]It is a nice day dream that he might be a cardinal or pope but the way things are looking now, it is very very unlikely.

I think that his reinterpreation of the 'poorest of the poor', or 'preferential option for the poor' as being Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament is very interesting, but doubt he will get any significant traction out of it from the liberals that are currently in control.

People are wondering why our Church is so polarized... this is because one side is small and has such few resources that they are trying to use them to maintain the faith and liturgy in the face of constant opposition, the other side cares little about doctrine or dogma and so uses the social institutions of the Church to justify their salaries and involvment.

It would be nice to return to a Church where there is both a traditional liturgy and active social services, and in some small parishes, this does happen, but the reality is that the Church is foremost about the objective worship of God, charity to the poor flows from this.

I am starting to wonder if the answer to the mess in the Church is to abandon the schools and hospitals and universities, because most of the employees have lost the faith and by taking public government money the Church has to bend to its will.

Perhaps it is better to divest of these anchors around the Church's neck so that a true restoration might begin a new.... as the SSPX example shows, when the true faith returns to a community, schools etc will be created anew.

Poor resources can only be so much of an excuse.
My experience was once I received the grace to be present to Christ in the Eucharist my life radically changed and all of a sudden all I wanted to do was to go out in the world and help others and am coming to love the works of mercy.

On some level the only genuine desire for the works of mercy can come through a state of grace which comes through the blessed sacrament which I think we are all on agreement on comes from the Trad Mass.

I am convinced a lot of the modernists do the corporal works of mercy because they think they need to fulfill an obligation to Christ and it pleases him. It doesn't please Christ to hand someone 5$ it pleases Christ to see that person as we see ourselves and to love them.

"It is not surprising that a man who has bread should give a piece to someone who is starving. What is surprising is that he should be capable of doing so with so different a gesture from that with which we buy an object. Almsgiving when it is not supernatural is like a purchase. It buys the sufferer. "
-Simone Weil

This Bishop is 100% right and the two things (Grace and Mercy) are wound up with each other, two sides of one coin.
(01-27-2014, 04:49 PM)Freudentaumel Wrote: [ -> ]Perhaps that is also one of the reasons the Franciscans of the Immaculate get attacked so badly. They were the living proof of the falsehood of that dichotomy. And some people would rather keep the dichotomy in order to easier dismiss the Trads.

NICE point.
(01-28-2014, 10:43 PM)JuniorCouncilor Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-27-2014, 04:49 PM)Freudentaumel Wrote: [ -> ]Perhaps that is also one of the reasons the Franciscans of the Immaculate get attacked so badly. They were the living proof of the falsehood of that dichotomy. And some people would rather keep the dichotomy in order to easier dismiss the Trads.

NICE point.

This is a brilliant insight. The FFI was the "whole package". The "plotters" can keep the SSPX at bay because they won't let go of the bone, so just like a dumb dog,  grab it when they have it in their mouth and shake until they are frothing. 

tim
(01-27-2014, 02:31 PM)Prie dieu Wrote: [ -> ]He will be a cardinal some day soon.  And I honestly would not be surprised if he also became Pope.
Russia will be Consecrated to the BVM first.
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