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Full Version: If you don’t feel in need of God’s mercy don’t go to Mass, says Pope
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(02-13-2014, 05:47 PM)PolishTrad Wrote: [ -> ]
"Chestertonian" Wrote:A lot of them also don't believe in the real presence, they're pro choice and they believe in gay marriage.
May we have some little off-topic here? Is it actually a sin to personally think that abortion should be legal? Is it a sin to vote for a person who is of the same opinion? Yes, no, depends?
I have some Catholic friends (you'd think it's not hard in Poland but actually I'd say more than a half of people I meet on a daily basis are non-believers) and most of them are much better than I when it comes to living according to the Church's teaching. But, unlike me, they usually think that in vitro fertilisation is ok, same-sex unions as well, etc., etc. I doubt they ever confess it and if they do then well, they don't change their view so such a confession is invalid. But I'm 99% sure they don't confess their political views that are opposed to Catholic teaching. Heck, nowadays not that many Catholics vote for parties that are acceptable from our point of view. So, what is it like? When do one's views about abortion/euthanasia/etc. become mortal sins?

Well, first of all, spreading these ideas would certainly be a sin.  Now these elderly relatives of mine aren't out there posting pro choice or pro-gay stuff on the internet, but in conversation, they try to argue these points with various people and convince them to see things that way.  Voting for a pro-abortion politician is also a sin. 

I don't think that believing homosexuality or abortion are OK is officially a heresy but it shows that you have not submitted to the mind of the Church, even if you are not having abortions or engaging in homosexual activity.
(02-13-2014, 10:17 PM)Chestertonian Wrote: [ -> ]  Voting for a pro-abortion politician is also a sin. 

basically don't vote at all, except for referendums.

pro-life politicians are few and far between.

I think his point is that everybody needs God's mercy. Thinking to the contrary seems like the sin of presumption.
(02-13-2014, 01:28 PM)digitalpapist Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-13-2014, 11:10 AM)Unum Sint Wrote: [ -> ]I read the quote and I dont think he is saying what you think he is saying. I thought he was being sarcastic in his comment.

I am an incredibly sarcastic person, but there's a time and place for it.  Everything he says is dressed up in it, which is both unbecoming and prone to confusion given cultural idioms.

Yes and I would not do so either but Pope Francis if anything else has proven that he is not one to observe discretion or protocol when doing things.
(02-14-2014, 03:43 PM)Unum Sint Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-13-2014, 01:28 PM)digitalpapist Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-13-2014, 11:10 AM)Unum Sint Wrote: [ -> ]I read the quote and I dont think he is saying what you think he is saying. I thought he was being sarcastic in his comment.

I am an incredibly sarcastic person, but there's a time and place for it.  Everything he says is dressed up in it, which is both unbecoming and prone to confusion given cultural idioms.

Yes and I would not do so either but Pope Francis if anything else has proven that he is not one to observe discretion or protocol when doing things.

I think you could accuse saint Francis of the same thing.
(02-14-2014, 04:55 PM)triumphguy Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-14-2014, 03:43 PM)Unum Sint Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-13-2014, 01:28 PM)digitalpapist Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-13-2014, 11:10 AM)Unum Sint Wrote: [ -> ]I read the quote and I dont think he is saying what you think he is saying. I thought he was being sarcastic in his comment.

I am an incredibly sarcastic person, but there's a time and place for it.  Everything he says is dressed up in it, which is both unbecoming and prone to confusion given cultural idioms.

Yes and I would not do so either but Pope Francis if anything else has proven that he is not one to observe discretion or protocol when doing things.

I think you could accuse saint Francis of the same thing.

No one should fool himself that Pope Francis can be substantially compared with Saint Francis.
(02-14-2014, 05:27 PM)Miriam_M Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-14-2014, 04:55 PM)triumphguy Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-14-2014, 03:43 PM)Unum Sint Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-13-2014, 01:28 PM)digitalpapist Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-13-2014, 11:10 AM)Unum Sint Wrote: [ -> ]I read the quote and I dont think he is saying what you think he is saying. I thought he was being sarcastic in his comment.

I am an incredibly sarcastic person, but there's a time and place for it.  Everything he says is dressed up in it, which is both unbecoming and prone to confusion given cultural idioms.

Yes and I would not do so either but Pope Francis if anything else has proven that he is not one to observe discretion or protocol when doing things.

I think you could accuse saint Francis of the same thing.

No one should fool himself that Pope Francis can be substantially compared with Saint Francis.

I dunno... St. Francis was definitely a fallible man. That is part of the reason I really do love him so much. He was a bit of a hot head. He had certain ideas that were challenged in the reality of their implementation. For example, he initially started out with this "great" idea that the friars should not be academics in any sense. Just be poor; beg for everything; live the Gospel. And then they came upon heretics who would quote scripture, engage in philosophical rhetoric, etc. The friars were rhetorically decimated in these confrontations. Enter St. Anthony of Padua, the Academic Augustinian who had the Bible memorized, was a philosophy whiz, knew theology, and came from the exact milieu St. Francis was seeking to not bring in. He tasked St. Anthony with teaching the friars. Suddenly, their meetings with the heretics took a turn: the friars were able to actually put forth an argument and many were converted from the ranks of heretics.

Now, St. Francis' idea was certainly noble, grandiose, etc. But it was ultimately stupid when faced with the reality of their day. Similarly, I see in Pope Francis some very grandiose ideas of simplicity. Noble, one might say, in its innocent ignorance. But he will potentially have to realize, like St. Francis, that one cannot just go off the hilt with these ideas if they do not prove to be effective.

The key for Franciscans was not that they be a bunch of purposely ignorant bumpkins, but that in their extremely ascetic lifestyle the principles employed should allow them to not count as temporally important such academic levels. Rather, they should embrace intelligence and academic pursuits as it allows them to raise that lifestyle to a higher level, which also allows defense of the Faith. In this, they became able preachers and yet, their simplicity was the greatest pulpit of all!

In living the Gospel they succeeded, but only once they were able to mesh the living of it with the explaining of it.

Presently, Pope Francis is at level 1: living.

He's gonna need to bring in a bit of Benedict's academia to act as a modern Anthony. He needs to learn to explain properly, as right now he's losing the rhetorical battle.
I did not know for years that I needed God's mercy. That is the era of the 19 years between confessions.  We were a 'resurrection people' you see and no longer needed penance. Father said that life is like a golf tournament and Jesus paid the fee and we just need to go and play golf.

But it was still a mortal sin when I missed Mass.

But nowadays folks blow off Mass like it was nothing. The thing is if it is just a meal or show or social time or entertainment, then why go. How many Catholics realize that it is The Holy Sacrifice?

Remarks like this, and there has been many, just confirm the uncatechised in their ignorance.
"Magdalene" Wrote:We were a 'resurrection people' you see and no longer needed penance. Father said that life is like a golf tournament and Jesus paid the fee and we just need to go and play golf.
Was he a Catholic priest or were you then a Protestant?
(02-14-2014, 05:27 PM)Miriam_M Wrote: [ -> ]No one should fool himself that Pope Francis can be substantially compared with Saint Francis.

St. Francis, as well as most saints, were misunderstood and criticized during their lifetimes. We have the advantage of centuries of hindsight.
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