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How did we miss this?
Francis, 2013-06-15 Wrote:What is reconciliation? Taking one from this side, taking another one for that side and uniting them: no, that’s part of it but it's not it ... True reconciliation means that God in Christ took on our sins and He became the sinner for us. When we go to confession, for example, it isn’t that we say our sin and God forgives us. No, not that! We look for Jesus Christ and say: 'This is your sin, and I will sin again'. And Jesus likes that, because it was his mission: to become the sinner for us, to liberate us.
(source)

This is even more blasphemous than thinking Mother Mary might have born ill-will toward her Son.
Becoming"the sinner" is not becoming"a sinner" although his wordy is murky and it is confusing
(02-22-2014, 04:12 PM)Chestertonian Wrote: [ -> ]Becoming"the sinner" is not becoming"a sinner" although his wordy is murky and it is confusing
Yes, I know that from Italian ⇔ English, sometimes definite articles are dropped, changed to indefinite articles, or kept; it all depends.

The best way that I can excuse the murkiness is:
Perhaps he meant that Christ took on our sins just as He took on our flesh. Christ doesn't become a man, as though He ceased being God; He is true God and true man, yet we say "Christ became man" as a shorthand for saying that Christ took on human flesh. Perhaps Francis is using a similar "shorthand" here: "Christ became a sinner" as a shorthand for "Christ took on our sins."

The best argument against it is the fact that he says we don't ask for forgiveness in confession because the sin in Christ's!
Council of Trent Wrote:Denzinger 913 Can. 3.[B] If anyone says that those words of the Lord Savior: "Receive ye the Holy Ghost; whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins ye shall retain, they are retained" [John 20:22 f.], are not to be understood of the power of remitting and retaining sins in the sacrament of penance, as the Catholic Church has always understood from the beginning, but, contrary to the institution of this sacrament, distorts them to an authority for preaching the Gospel: let him be anathema [cf.n. 894 ]
2 Corinthians 5:21
New Revised Standard Version, Anglicised Catholic Edition (NRSVACE)
21 For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

2 Corinthians 5:21
Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)
21 Him, who knew no sin, he hath made sin for us, that we might be made the justice of God in him.
The words are murky for sure, but He took not just sin, but all the sins of the world.

tim
I didn't even have to click on this to know it was a Geremia post.  :LOL:
Thanks triumphguy.

Yes, he is just doing a rhetorical paraphrase of Corinthians, as quoted by triumphguy. Nothing to burn him for, yet. Just trying to do his job, which in my opinion, he thinks is entirely rhetorical and confined to the sphere of preaching the Gospel to the world.
Armchair popes on fisheaters - God love you! If you guys are as competent and creative in your own lives and vocations, you must be powerhouses of evangelism. Veritable saints.
(02-22-2014, 05:38 PM)loggats Wrote: [ -> ]Armchair popes on fisheaters - God love you! If you guys are as competent and creative in your own lives and vocations, you must be powerhouses of evangelism. Veritable saints.

God forbid that the Sovereign Pontiff, who holds several degrees and who's been a priest for over 40 years, aside from teaching at the college level, be expected to express himself in a clear and easily-understood manner.  Perhaps we're expecting too much from the Vicar of Christ?  ???
Okay, this becoming 'the sinner' perhaps might be explained. But this:
Quote:We look for Jesus Christ and say: 'This is your sin, and I will sin again'.
I don't know what to say. "I will sin again"? I mean, we know that we probably will sin some day after the confession but shouldn't it be at least "This is the sin. I do not wish to commit it ever again. I might, but at this moment I want to leave it behind I never come back to it."?
Just thinking here...
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