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http://blog.adw.org/2014/02/why-did-so-m...s-and-70s/
Monsignor Pope paraphrasing this priest:

Quote:And so we ushered in our little revolution, convinced that we were doing the right thing, convinced that this would save the Church from irrelevance in the modern, scientific, intellectual and supposedly sophisticated age.

Remember the times! We were building interstate highway system, we just introduced television, there were scientists in lab coats seen everywhere, and computers were entering on the scene. We were planning to go to the moon by the early 60s! Yes, we thought we had come with age. If it was old it was bad,  but if it was new it was good.

Of course, this is complete B.S., and a retroactively manufactured excuse.  The fact is that long before the 1960's, society moved far ahead of the ancient Church, but the Church was unconcerned about "keeping up" in the spheres of morality, architecture, liturgy, or spirituality..  And until then, Church leaders were not corrupted by the "need" for "change."  They understood The World and The Church to be different, while intersecting, realms.  The Church never before borrowed her understandings (including about herself),or her premises, or her expectations from outside herself.  Church leaders chose  to succumb to external pressures and even to embrace those.  They chose to conform to and be formed by The World, and to allow the faithful to be formed by the World as well.  Shame on them.  They enabled the mess we have today.

Msgr. Pope commenting:

Quote:It was about the shredding and scrapping of time test theological teachings in favor of trendy sociological and psychological substitutes, questionable moral theories, dubious Scriptural theories and the like. It was about open disobedience to liturgical norms and the casting aside of our spiritual traditions in favor of far Eastern and non-Christian philosophies and the like.

Note that the priest presents a rationalization and defense, not an apology -- all the while implying that he, the priest, understands (supposedly now) the betrayal of the Church's absolute truths which resulted from such weakness.  These were critical failures in personal fortitude and intellectual understanding, both.  As serious and probably more far-reaching, even, than the sexual abuse crisis, in sum.

How about if we went into the Confessional and blamed the licentiousness, greed, and self-idolization of the modern world for our own sins?  (Yeah, that works.)

I think you should be clear in your post that Msgr. Pope is quoting another priest who lived through the times. Those are not the good Msgr's words.

When I speak to priests who lived through the period, the main things they said were they were following the signs of the times with all the economic and social changes.  I think a lot of it flowed from two sources you have an overly positive view of the world (which sadly many modern theologians confuse with Aquinas) from the American side where nothing was untouchable not even building a tower to heaven, and then there is a French/German post-war guilt trip that associated the evils of the World Wars with the faith or tradition and that the peace of man to man is greater than the peace that God can give to man, that the division amongst men were a greater scandal than any heresy, sin, etc.   

After the war times did change and people were optimistic. Europe which was nearly destroyed was being rebuilt. America after the GI's returned got married, had babys and started to move toward the middle class. Before the war both had lived through terrible economic times the Depression from 29 until after their return. Europe was making it's first attempts at ending their continuous warring with each other and the European Steel and Coal treaty was the first step to the EU America the fortress became the economic powerhouse with the US $ as the standard currency. Everyone turned their backs on the first fifty years of war in that century and wanted to get on with life.

It wasn't just TV, moms got real help as dad worked to get moola to buy things like washing machines and dryers, unheard of before. Credit was lay away at a local dept. store not cards.My dad like many maybe most worked two jobs to insure his family ate well and paid the bills, he wanted no more of the previous decades. After family's got the household stuff to make life bearable, cars was the next thing, something unheard of before in the big cities. Ike built the highways and when we got cars the road vacation was born.

If you were going back to Europe for any reason it was on a ship not a plane. When Boeing introduced the Strato Cruiser the plane before the 707 replacing the DC-3, people dressed up to fly anywhere. That was for the rich not us. If you had one of those little Pan Am or TWA bags for makeup you were considered to be rich and influential.  The whole family going to a restaurant for a meal was rare, maybe after a funeral. Moms cooked and in the summer with no air conditioning the streets were full of the smells everywhere.

just a snap shot in time,

tim 

(02-24-2014, 02:25 PM)Tenmaru Wrote: [ -> ]I think you should be clear in your post that Msgr. Pope is quoting another priest who lived through the times. Those are not the good Msgr's words.

I already did make that clear.  And anyone who isn't clear on that distinction can visit the link I provided.

(02-24-2014, 03:37 PM)Tim Wrote: [ -> ]After the war times did change and people were optimistic. Europe which was nearly destroyed was being rebuilt. America after the GI's returned got married, had babys and started to move toward the middle class. Before the war both had lived through terrible economic times the Depression from 29 until after their return. Europe was making it's first attempts at ending their continuous warring with each other and the European Steel and Coal treaty was the first step to the EU America the fortress became the economic powerhouse with the US $ as the standard currency. Everyone turned their backs on the first fifty years of war in that century and wanted to get on with life.

It wasn't just TV, moms got real help as dad worked to get moola to buy things like washing machines and dryers, unheard of before. Credit was lay away at a local dept. store not cards.My dad like many maybe most worked two jobs to insure his family ate well and paid the bills, he wanted no more of the previous decades. After family's got the household stuff to make life bearable, cars was the next thing, something unheard of before in the big cities. Ike built the highways and when we got cars the road vacation was born.

If you were going back to Europe for any reason it was on a ship not a plane. When Boeing introduced the Strato Cruiser the plane before the 707 replacing the DC-3, people dressed up to fly anywhere. That was for the rich not us. If you had one of those little Pan Am or TWA bags for makeup you were considered to be rich and influential.  The whole family going to a restaurant for a meal was rare, maybe after a funeral. Moms cooked and in the summer with no air conditioning the streets were full of the smells everywhere.

just a snap shot in time,

tim 

The rapid changes sometimes amazes me, a priest who grew up in 1940s new york was telling me about how the first phones were party lines with half the block and now a days you have my 12 year old niece with a cell phone.  The last civil war widow only ten years ago, think about it that woman had a connection with a man who was born when there were very few railroads in the country.  I remember something that President Reagan once said that when he was born automobiles only started to gain popularity, there were no  radios except as parlor shop novelties, no television.  It amazes the gap that exists between me (at 29) and those a mere 5-6 years younger than me, because I remember a time when computers were not widespread, there was no internet, no social media, etc. 

That's what I was trying to get across. Judging those times and people by current norms is a huge mistake. I remember party lines though my family was la-di-da and had a private line. He, Take a peek here's a show which was very popular with women then,plus it shows the honest emotions of folks back then.




tim

Yes, so many sought to revolutionize the Roman Catholic Church in the 60s and 70s, and they succeeded but only in destroying  Her, while in the same time Stalin and the reds sought to destroy the Orthodox Church and they failed since the orthodox faith underwent a huge renewal once the communism died in Russia.

(02-24-2014, 05:10 PM)Tim Wrote: [ -> ]That's what I was trying to get across. Judging those times and people by current norms is a huge mistake. I remember party lines though my family was la-di-da and had a private line. He, Take a peek here's a show which was very popular with women then,plus it shows the honest emotions of folks back then.

tim

You had a private line?  Wow, you were upscale.  My family didn't have a private line until I was in my teens.

Yep, it is and was an attack which was multileveled and orchestrated by preternatural intelligence.

tim