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Full Version: Pope Francis: Heretics Can Be Saints?
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http://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.ph...-be-saints

Another day, another bombshell in the Conciliar Church. In his homily today during Friday Mass in Santa Marta, the Pope relayed the following to the congregation:

"Many thinkers in the Church were persecuted, as well. I think of one, now, at this moment, not so far from us: a man of good will, a prophet indeed, who, in his writings reproached the Church for having lost the way of the Lord. He was summoned in short order, his books were placed on the index [the list of works that were banned or restricted to experts because of their problematic, erroneous and even heretical content], they took away his teaching positions – and thus, this man’s life ended – and it was not so long ago. [Now] time has passed, and today he is Blessed. How is it, though, that he, who yesterday was a heretic, is today a Blessed of the Church? It is because yesterday, those who had power wanted to silence him because they did not like what he was saying. Today the Church, who, thanks be to God knows repent, says, ‘No, this man is good!’. Moreover, he is on the way to sainthood: He is a Blessed.”

Notice that Francis does not say that the heretic in this example repented. No, it was the Church who apparently repented and saw the light! Of course this vision of sainthood immediately opens up new vistas for progressives. One can already see liberals using this as a basis of rehabilitation and potential sainthood for all of the notorious Modernists condemned by Pius X such as Loisy and Terrell.  After all, wasn't it Francis' right hand man, Cardinal Maradiaga who said:

“The Second Vatican Council was the main event in the Church in the 20th Century. In principle, it meant an end to the hostilities between the Church and modernism, which was condemned in the First Vatican Council”

Further, what does this mean for Francis' concept of sainthood? Can the Church's previous condemnations of heresy be in error? Can dogma "evolve" to the point where what was formerly heretical is now seen as good? Can what was once obstinate defiance turn into "heroic virtue"? And if Francis sees even previous heretics worthy of canonization, did not Remnant columnist Peter Crenshaw have a point when he recently asked the following:

"If, on April 27, 2014 Pope Francis declares John Paul II to be a “saint”, but by “saint” he means an “ecumenical witness to the Faith” which could just as well be someone like the Baptist Martin Luther King or the Lutheran Dietrich Bonhoeffer, is he truly intending to use papal infallibility to bind what the Church has always bound in a canonization? Or is he rather formally recognizing ecumenical examples whose lives he believes we can learn from?"
(Humbly adjusting my dunce hat before asking this)  Dunce

To whom is Pope Francis referring in the article?  I'm lost here....
Would be nice to know.

But does it really matter?
Criticising the Pope was inappropriate, any I apologize for any act of Gossip, Detraction, Slander, and/or Calumny that I committed as a result of my post, or caused by anyone viewing my post(s).

Glory be to the Father, and to the Son,
and to the Holy Spirit,
as it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be,
world without end. Amen.
The Pope is NOT saying that heretics can be saints, he is saying that PROPHETS will be persecuted, even in their own home town.

There's nothing to see here folks move along.

I wish people would actually read the whole (expletive deleted) text of the pope before they jump in with both feet based on someone else's opinion, and have a go at him.

And OBVIOUSLY he wasn't saying heretics will get to heaven because the person he was relating to is now a BLESSED and his works were accepted.

http://www.news.va/en/news/pope-francis-...ta-marta-2
“In the history of salvation,” said Pope Francis, “in the time of Israel, even in the Church, the prophets were persecuted.” The prophets were persecuted because they said, “You have taken the wrong path! Return to God’s way.” Pope Francis went on to say that this message is one that those who are in power and have lost their way never find pleasing: Listen:

“Today's Gospel is clear, no? Jesus hid, in those last days, because His hour had yet to come – but He knew what end he would make, and how He would make it. Jesus is persecuted from the beginning: when we remember the beginning of his preaching, He returns to His country, goes to the synagogue and preaches. After great adulation, the voices begin almost right away to murmur: ‘But, we know where He comes from… He is one of us… with that authority comes He to teach us? Where did He study?’ [Thus] they write Him off. It is the same old thing: ‘But we know where He is from! Christ , however, when He comes, no one will know where he is from. Write the Lord off, write off the prophet in order to take away his authority.”

The prophets, said Pope Francis, “are all persecuted or misunderstood,” pushed aside – a situation that does not cease to repeat itself after Christ’s death and resurrection, but continues even in the Church. “When we read the lives of the saints, Pope Francis said, “how many misunderstandings [have there been], how many of the saints have suffered persecution… because they were prophets.”:

"Many thinkers in the Church were persecuted, as well. I think of one, now, at this moment, not so far from us: a man of good will, a prophet indeed, who, in his writings reproached the Church for having lost the way of the Lord. He was summoned in short order, his books were placed on the index [the list of works that were banned or restricted to experts because of their problematic, erroneous and even heretical content], they took away his teaching positions – and thus, this man’s life ended – and it was not so long ago. [Now] time has passed, and today he is Blessed. How is it, though, that he, who yesterday was a heretic, is today a Blessed of the Church? It is because yesterday, those who had power wanted to silence him because they did not like what he was saying. Today the Church, who, thanks be to God knows repent, says, ‘No, this man is good!’. Moreover, he is on the way to sainthood: He is a Blessed.”

“All the people whom the Holy Spirit chooses to tell the truth to the People of God suffer persecution,” said Pope Francis – and Jesus “is precisely the model, the icon.” The Lord took upon Himself “all the persecutions of His people.” The Holy Father went on to note that Christians continue to suffer persecution even today. “I dare say,” he added, “that perhaps there are as many or more martyrs now that in the early days,” because they tell the truth and proclaim Christ Jesus to a worldly society in love with ease and desirous of avoiding problems.”:
“There is the death penalty or imprisonment for having the Gospel at home, for teaching the Catechism, today, in some parts of the world. A Catholic from one of these countries told me that they cannot pray together. It is forbidden. People can only pray alone and in secret – but they want to celebrate the Eucharist and how do they do? They throw a birthday party, they pretend to celebrate the birthday there and [have Mass] before the ‘party’. It has happened. When they see the police arrive, they just hide everything and [continue with the birthday party-cover]. Then, when [authorities] leave, they finish the [Mass]. They have to do so, because it is forbidden to pray together: in this very day.”

This history of persecution, he remarked , “is the way of the Lord: it is the path of those who follow the Lord.” Pope Francis went on to say that this story ends as always in Resurrection, though only by passing by way of the Cross. The Holy Father then turned his attention to Fr. Matteo Ricci, SJ, an evangelizer of China, who was not understood, either. “He obeyed as Jesus did, though,” said Pope Francis. “Always,” he continued, “there will be persecutions, misunderstandings. Jesus is Lord, however, and that is the challenge and the Cross of our faith.” The Pope concluded, asking God to give us the grace to go on His way, and if it happens, even with the cross of persecution.”


And he concludes by saying we are all called to be prophets, and so we should all expect to be persecuted.
The original article is linked to. Click on the Pope's words in the Remnant piece.

Nevertheless, no matter how you spin this, he said that a heretic can be a blessed and on the way to canonization. It's in black and white.

Today's heretic is tomorrow's saint! Just have to wait out the "people who don't like what you say" aka the Church, until the Church repents, and you are raised to the altars...
Speculation against the Pope was unwarranted on my part, I apologize for any sins of Gossip, Detraction, Calumny, and/or Slander caused by this post, as well as any other sins committed, and any sins others fell or will fall into by reading it as a result.

Glory be to the Father, and to the Son,
and to the Holy Spirit,
as it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be,
world without end. Amen.
(04-04-2014, 09:24 PM)hbaldauf Wrote: [ -> ]The original article is linked to. Click on the Pope's words in the Remnant piece.

Nevertheless, no matter how you spin this, he said that a heretic can be a blessed and on the way to canonization. It's in black and white.

Today's heretic is tomorrow's saint! Just have to wait out the "people who don't like what you say" aka the Church, until the Church repents, and you are raised to the altars...

If a heretic becomes a blessed, they are not so because they are still considered a heretic for crying out loud.
Once a heretic always a heretic, unless they repent of it.

Otherwise dogma can change.

Per the Pope's words, the Church apparently repented in this case and then beatified the heretic!
(04-04-2014, 10:55 PM)hbaldauf Wrote: [ -> ]Once a heretic always a heretic, unless they repent of it.

Otherwise dogma can change.

Per the Pope's words, the Church apparently repented in this case and then beatified the heretic!

It seems you are intentionally misunderstanding now. The Church does not repent of her dogma and doctrine and mores, but some men with authority in the Church are sometimes wrong. Bl. Mary of Agreda's writings were once put on the Index too, but we now know that she is an incorruptible. The Holy Father never said or even implied that heretics can be saints but just that "the Church" (as in the human element of) can be wrong that a particular person or persons are heretics. He's not making any case against the Church's immutable teachings but that simply that one's personal judgment of character can wrong even if the one making the judgment is a prelate in the Church.
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