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http://veneremurcernui.wordpress.com/201...m-than-no/

Fr. von Cochem – more extrinsic Grace available in TLM than NO

What’s that you say?  How on earth could a priest dead nearly 350 years have spoken about the Novus Ordo?  Oh, he spake.  He spake indeed (from Explanation of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, pp. 284-5):

The Victim is the same in all Masses, none other than Jesus Christ Himself, and in this regard all Masses are equally good, equally precious.  With regard to the sacrificial act, the offering of the Victim, the more lightdevoutly the priest says the Mass, the more acceptable to God is the Sacrifice he offers, and the more abundant are the graces is brings down from above, both upon the priest who celebrates the Mass and the individual for whom he offers it.

We find a confirmation of this in the writings of St. Bonaventure, who says: “All Masses are equally good, as far as Christ is concerned; but as far as the priest is concerned, one may be better than another. Therefore it is more profitable to hear the Mass of a good priest than of an indifferent one.” Cardinal Bona also corroborates this opinion: “The more holy and pleasing to God,” he says, “a priest is the more acceptable are his prayers and oblations; and the greater his devotion the greater the benefit derived form his Mass. For just as other good works performed by a pious man gain merit in proportion to the zeal and devotion wherewith they are performed, so Holy Mass is more or less profitable both to the priest who says it and to the persons for whom it is said according as it is celebrated with more or less fervor.” This is the reason why in the Mass the priest frequently beseeches God graciously to accept his oblation, and to vouchsafe that it may be conducive to his own salvation and that of the people.

———-End Quote———-

When the Mass was revolutionized in the 1960s, numerous actions which constitute sacramentals were removed. I believe the number of signs of the Cross the priest makes was reduced from something like 33 to 3. Invocations of the Most Holy Name and the Trinity plummeted likewise.  Genuflections, bowings, many prayers with indulgences attached……all were greatly reduced.  All of these actions are sources of Grace.  Then there is the entire matter of the priest having his back turned towards His Lord in the Tabernacle, and no longer visibly leading the people in prayer and supplication before God, but the community has turned inward on itself.

Intrinsically – because if properly offered it contains the Real Presence and the only Sacrifice acceptable to God – the Novus Ordo is the equal of the TLM, at least notionally.  But extrinsically, there is a massive difference, and that is what Fr. von Cochem observes above, though he frames his discussion in terms of a Mass well-offered by a holy priest, versus a more lackadaisical Mass offered by a less holy priest.  The TLM simply has more because it retains all those actions which are sources of Grace not just for the priest, but for all those in attendance and indeed for the entire Church and world.

I should note, of course, the same applies to varying types of Novus Ordo Masses.  A very reverent Novus Ordo offers more Grace to equally participating souls than does a very irreverent and abusive one. And it is quite possible to offer the NO in a way that brings it much closer to the TLM.

None of this is to say that souls who assist at the TLM are “better” than those who assist at Novus Ordos.  It’s not to say that the NO is not efficacious of Grace or anything like that.  But it is to say that, all other things equal, the TLM offers more Grace, more benefit to souls, than does the Novus Ordo.  And that is no small thing.
Then trads should be extraordinarily holy, right?  Unsure
We Are!!!!!!! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen!
(04-10-2014, 05:46 PM)mortify Wrote: [ -> ]Then trads should be extraordinarily holy, right?  Unsure

Key word is "offers".

http://veneremurcernui.wordpress.com/201...m-than-no/



Thanks for the link, article. God bless.
Thanks for that article!
I read a similar article a while back by Fr. Ripperger in Latin Mass Magazine.

The Merit of a Mass
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KPhA...Ro/preview

Quote:Among the traditional faithful there appears to be a kind of intuitive sense that the old rite of Mass is more efficacious than the new rite. Many believe that they derive more spiritual gain from the old rite of Mass than from the new. However, to give a more precise expression to the intuitive sense of which is more efficacious, the new or the old rite, it is necessary to make several distinctions. Since the purpose of this article is very specific, i.e. to ascertain which ritual is more meritorious or efficacious, certain issues regarding the value or efficacy of the Mass will be avoided.1

Yet, to answer the question of whether the old rite of Mass is more efficacious than the new is of paramount importance. It is the point of departure between priests of the respective rites, since each holds that he is saying the Mass that is best for the faithful.2 Nevertheless, the question is a key one since, in the end, whichever ritual is more meritorious ought to be the one that the Roman authorities encourage. Since one of the primary obligations of those in authority in the Church is the glory of God through the salvation of souls, they have the obligation to encourage and, in some cases, require the ritual of the Mass which is most efficacious.
Eye-roll
When the Mass was revolutionized in the 1960s, numerous actions which constitute sacramentals were removed. I believe the number of signs of the Cross the priest makes was reduced from something like 33 to 3. Invocations of the Most Holy Name and the Trinity plummeted likewise.  Genuflections, bowings, many prayers with indulgences attached……all were greatly reduced.  All of these actions are sources of Grace.  Then there is the entire matter of the priest having his back turned towards His Lord in the Tabernacle, and no longer visibly leading the people in prayer and supplication before God, but the community has turned inward on itself.

In the Raccolta there are so many indulgences that are used in the TLM.  Just reading it makes me think , how wonderful a God we have!!
To me the discrepancy between the rightness of the traditional Latin mass and the actual state of the people that attend it has been my most vexing problem. I don't mean to cast judgment on the general trad population, I am far from holy and it's not like I don't have my own quirks, but I have noticed a tendency towards neurosis and negativity in trad circles and it has been a major put off. If these wonderful graces poor forth then I don't understand why the people who dip their cup in the well don't benefit from it. The excuse I usually here is that the situation in the Church is rough and this has created some negativity and despair, ok, granted, but as some of you may know I practiced Islam prior to Catholicism, and despite being part of an Islamic group that is often despised by other Muslims, there was never a sense of despair or negativity. It has been one of my crosses that despite finding the true religion I have yet to find spiritually advanced people who can guide me closer to God (at least in my immediate area, again, I don't mean to cast this on the general trad population.)
(04-11-2014, 12:33 PM)mortify Wrote: [ -> ]To me the discrepancy between the rightness of the traditional Latin mass and the actual state of the people that attend it has been my most vexing problem. I don't mean to cast judgment on the general trad population, I am far from holy and it's not like I don't have my own quirks, but I have noticed a tendency towards neurosis and negativity in trad circles and it has been a major put off. If these wonderful graces poor forth then I don't understand why the people who dip their cup in the well don't benefit from it. The excuse I usually here is that the situation in the Church is rough and this has created some negativity and despair, ok, granted, but as some of you may know I practiced Islam prior to Catholicism, and despite being part of an Islamic group that is often despised by other Muslims, there was never a sense of despair or negativity. It has been one of my crosses that despite finding the true religion I have yet to find spiritually advanced people who can guide me closer to God (at least in my immediate area, again, I don't mean to cast this on the general trad population.)

The very fact that you would attempt a summary judgment of an entire population (despite your nuanced statement) reflects poorly on you.
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