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Sunday, April 27, 2014
Advice on Surviving the Canonizations
Written by  Chris Jackson | Remnant Columnist


This, no doubt, will be a very tough weekend for many Traditional Catholics to have to endure. The party atmosphere alone will be enough to make us wince. But on top of this, we will have to watch and/or encounter thousands of faithful who will be blissfully unaware that they are witnessing one of the most grievous prudential errors in the history of the Church. Instead they will be laughing, singing, shouting, and cavorting, much like the atmosphere at a World Youth Day.

Even though the promoter of John Paul II’s cause himself said the late pontiff was not being canonized for his pontificate, we will no doubt, have to hear George Weigel and others disregard this unprecedented qualification and praise John Paul II’s pontificate anyway.

Since we will have to experience this surreal celebration of the last 50 years of post-conciliar destruction and witness masses of “Santo Subito” Catholics celebrating pontificates that brought about mass confusion and disorder in the Church, what are we to think? Is there any hope of making sense of this that does not end in despair?

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(04-27-2014, 10:05 PM)hbaldauf Wrote: [ -> ]Sunday, April 27, 2014
Advice on Surviving the Canonizations
Written by  Chris Jackson | Remnant Columnist


This, no doubt, will be a very tough weekend for many Traditional Catholics to have to endure. The party atmosphere alone will be enough to make us wince. But on top of this, we will have to watch and/or encounter thousands of faithful who will be blissfully unaware that they are witnessing one of the most grievous prudential errors in the history of the Church. Instead they will be laughing, singing, shouting, and cavorting, much like the atmosphere at a World Youth Day.

Even though the promoter of John Paul II’s cause himself said the late pontiff was not being canonized for his pontificate, we will no doubt, have to hear George Weigel and others disregard this unprecedented qualification and praise John Paul II’s pontificate anyway.

Since we will have to experience this surreal celebration of the last 50 years of post-conciliar destruction and witness masses of “Santo Subito” Catholics celebrating pontificates that brought about mass confusion and disorder in the Church, what are we to think? Is there any hope of making sense of this that does not end in despair?

Read More
Ask the two new saints to intercede for you? ???
As for me and Lulu we could just puke.  If anyone comes to and says, "Isn't that neat!", "He was a great pope. . . I will loose it.  What an embarrassment.
We should survive as Chjristians have always survived when the Church has made hasty, ill-informed decisions: love, forgive, pray and be patient. The Lord will not judge us based on our acceptation of one saint or the other - He will judge us as our works of love merit.
Ignore the canonizations and offer it up.  Our Lord, crowned with thorns, has been mocked in such a way before but he gave us an example to follow.
A canonisation is and always will be the sole declaration that a person is in heaven, enjoying eternal life with God, can intercede for us and can receive our prayers and veneration.  The fact is that there are many here that simply wish that two men are not in heaven.  I think it's disgusting.  I am not saying that the ecclesiastics and the world see these canonisations as the canonisation of every single act of the two men, I don't deny that the world is trying to portray this as an elevation of the "spirit of Vatican II" to a super-dogma.  But it doesn't matter what the world things.  All that matters is what the Church has actually said.  And the Church says that a canonisation is and always will be the sole declaration that a person is in heaven, enjoying eternal life with God, can intercede for us and can receive our prayers and veneration.

Be honest.  You don't want these men to be enjoying the beatific vision, you are not desirous of their salvation.  You don't think they deserve to be in heaven because of their mistakes and failures.  And all I can say to that is God have mercy on your soul when you face His Judgement, because you are rendering judgement on your fellow men.  I thank God and rejoice in His mercy, that His grace can overcome the weaknesses and failures of men.  God allowed the formal declaration for a reason.  Veneration of Pope Saint John XXIII and Pope John Paul II will serve God's glory, as the veneration of all His saints does.

Don't develop an extra-liturgical devotion to them, no one is forcing you too.  Just get over it and stop being so prideful and judgmental.
(04-28-2014, 10:41 AM)Prie dieu Wrote: [ -> ]A canonisation is and always will be the sole declaration that a person is in heaven, enjoying eternal life with God, can intercede for us and can receive our prayers and veneration.  The fact is that there are many here that simply wish that two men are not in heaven.  I think it's disgusting.  I am not saying that the ecclesiastics and the world see these canonisations as the canonisation of every single act of the two men, I don't deny that the world is trying to portray this as an elevation of the "spirit of Vatican II" to a super-dogma.  But it doesn't matter what the world things.  All that matters is what the Church has actually said.  And the Church says that a canonisation is and always will be the sole declaration that a person is in heaven, enjoying eternal life with God, can intercede for us and can receive our prayers and veneration.

Be honest.  You don't want these men to be enjoying the beatific vision, you are not desirous of their salvation.  You don't think they deserve to be in heaven because of their mistakes and failures.  And all I can say to that is God have mercy on your soul when you face His Judgement, because you are rendering judgement on your fellow men.  I thank God and rejoice in His mercy, that His grace can overcome the weaknesses and failures of men.  God allowed the formal declaration for a reason.  Veneration of Pope Saint John XXIII and Pope John Paul II will serve God's glory, as the veneration of all His saints does.

Don't develop an extra-liturgical devotion to them, no one is forcing you too.  Just get over it and stop being so prideful and judgmental.
well said, Prie Dieu - Nolite judicare ut non giudicemini  --- There is only one lawgiver and judge, and he is able to save and to destroy. But you who judge your neighbor, who are you? (James 4,12) ----
(04-28-2014, 10:41 AM)Prie dieu Wrote: [ -> ]Be honest.  You don't want these men to be enjoying the beatific vision, you are not desirous of their salvation.  You don't think they deserve to be in heaven because of their mistakes and failures.

Not sure who this is directed at... but it's very insulting in general. I, personally, wish everyone would enjoy the beatific vision. I do hope JP2 and John XXIII are in Heaven. Shall we deny what's obvious just because it might sound judgmental, however? Most of what trads say here has nothing to do with judgment or condemnation. The effect which these pontificates had on the Church have been disastrous. Oh, some people may have "come to Christ" under those popes, but who can deny that the modern Catholic conception of a "relationship with Jesus Christ" is basically superficial? If it wasn't superficial, no one would be fleeing to Fisheaters for refuge from the tidal wave of novus ordo nightmares, would they? The reason any sensible Catholic might object to these canonizations is simply their hastiness and the personality-cult atmosphere, not because they think JP2 was evil or a heretic or a freemason.

Quote:Veneration of Pope Saint John XXIII and Pope John Paul II will serve God's glory, as the veneration of all His saints does.

Veneration of most saints - especially very popular personages - only serves the glory of saints and man's pride, in most cases. God is forgotten.

Sorry, I guess I have a dark view of man. I take the Fall very seriously. Despite rosy visions of man's dignity, most things are not done by men for the purpose of God's glory. He is glorified in all things, regardless, because of His own power and love. That alone is my hope for JP2 and John XXIII, not the insane raucous calls for canonization because of smiles and kissing babies.
(04-28-2014, 11:10 AM)voltape Wrote: [ -> ]well said, Prie Dieu - Nolite judicare ut non giudicemini   --- There is only one lawgiver and judge, and he is able to save and to destroy. But you who judge your neighbor, who are you? (James 4,12) ----

I'm sorry, but this is too thin.  God gave us a mind to be used, and yes, this includes judging.  If we were not able to discern (judge) we would never be able to tell right from wrong. The Almighty would have made us like the animals with mortal instead of immortal souls, and we'd function on instinct and primary-level awareness.

Someone yesterday was trying to make the comparison between JP2 and St. Paul in stating that we don't condemn St. Paul for having persecuted the Christians (The inference was that I should not be concerned with all the non-Catholic things that JP2 did).  My response was that St. Paul killed Christians before his conversion, not while he was supreme pontiff  (JP2; I know St. Paul was a bishop and not a pope) with the whole world watching (Assisi, Koran kissing, etc.).  That logic would lead one to believe that St. Paul could have offered some incense to the pagan gods every now and then after his conversion and today's Catholics would be (would have been) okay with it.

We've all sinned gravely and deserve Hell, (I'm sure these popes received the last sacraments and are in Heaven). I just will not hold JP2 or John XXIII up as an example of heroic virtue -- there are thousands of other saints to invoke.  The early martyrs would have thrown that Koran in the rubbish and told the pagans at Assisi about the True Faith and let the chips fall where they may have fallen.  Appeasement = lukewarmness and you know what Our Lord says about that.

More and more I feel like I'm on CAF with all the defenders here on FE of the recent canonizations. 
No actually, I'd be banned for life for the above if on CAF.

Great article and prayer from the Remnant !

Saints John XXIII and John Paul II, being now deeply regretful of the aftermath of Vatican II, the errors of religious liberty, collegiality and ecumenism and the persecution of the Traditional Mass, please act as our ablest intercessors to Our Heavenly Father in calling for the swift restoration of Tradition to Holy Mother Church. Sainted popes, please pray for the restoration of the Traditional Latin Mass to all of our Churches. Please pray for the restoration of the rights of Jesus Christ Our King over society. Please pray that all men may recognize the One True Church of Christ and convert. Please pray that our current pope and all future popes reclaim the true rights of the papacy over the entire Church. Please pray for an eradication of every form of Modernism in our time, and finally please pray that our Catholic priests, bishops, Pope come to see clearly and swiftly that one perfect Catholic Truth you both now finally enjoy in Heaven. Amen.



(04-28-2014, 12:15 PM)Gidge Wrote: [ -> ]The early martyrs would have thrown that Koran in the rubbish and told the pagans at Assisi about the True Faith and let the chips fall where they may have fallen.  Appeasement = lukewarmness and you know what Our Lord says about that.

This is a very excellent point. Even the original namesake of our arch-ecumenist Pope Francis (i.e. St. Francis of Assisi) had nothing to do with legitimizing Islam in his famous discussion with the Caliph. He just tried to convert the Muslim and that was that.

Quote:More and more I feel like I'm on CAF with all the defenders here on FE of the recent canonizations. 
No actually, I'd be banned for life for the above if on CAF.

There is indeed a strange CAF-like atmosphere, when honest trads are called judgmental and not-desirous of the salvation of others.

Thankfully we have Vox, who allows freedom of conscience and speech. She is a very excellent administrator & moderator. She need not get offended by the strong opinions of those who disagree with her - unlike those who run the prison camp which is CAF.
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