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Yesterday's Vortex outlined a study of American Catholics aged 18-23.  Mr. Voris breaks down the study's findings.  The study could not find ONE young catholic that they would consider "devout."  Only 29% of Catholics in this age group were considered "engaged."  See the video for yourself.  It is very interesting.

This brings me to my other point of discussion: traditional Catholics are TERRIBLE at evangelizing.  People here like to talk about how the Latin Mass is growing.  The reality is that the TLM is a tiny fraction of the worldwide church.  Most TLMs can barely get 100 people to attend on a Sunday.  This is horrible.  I believe this is related to the insular nature of most trads.  Also, many trads are hostile to the outside world.    Trads need to get out there and spread the faith.  This is our duty and we are failing miserably.

I understand that near where I live the FSSP church gets around 500 every Sunday.
(05-01-2014, 04:52 AM)Poche Wrote: [ -> ]I understand that near where I live the FSSP church gets around 500 every Sunday.

That is horrible.  I bet that is over 2 or 3 Masses. 
Quality, not quantity my friend! When an organization gets too big it becomes too impersonal unless each individual makes an effort. That is largely why (I think) religion in general is suffering. Too many got into it either by birth or some perhaps out of fear. Throw a rebellious generation in the mix like mine that thinks they are god and it all comes apart. Think about how many times the Israelites were punished by God because they drifted from Him over arrogance. It usually took an act of God to bring them (us) back.....
1962 inspired "traditionalism" will always be an acquired taste in the Church, claims to its "timelessness" and "authenticity" notwithstanding. The institutional Church has largely been quite benevolent, and that's a good thing, and allows the predilection to be fostered in a healthy environment within the Church (FSSP, indult masses etc).
I think the official & approved diocesan TLM doesn't get as many people as it might for two reasons:

1. Most Catholics are 1960s children or were brought up by 1960s children, and the prayerful Mass is alien to them.
2. Most Traditional Catholics realize that the olive branch of Summorum Pontificum isn't all it's cracked up to be.

As for #1, it's pretty obvious to me that the most popular novus ordo Masses are ones with guitar, tambourine, and "lay participation". People are shallow, and they like pianos and other worldly instruments to entertain them. Syrupy "praise and worship songs" are the order of the day. How on Earth do you think such flower-children will even have an interest in gregorian chant and renaissance polyphony? It's like getting water out of a stone without a staff.

As for #2, the elevation of the Latin Mass to a public position is just part of the Church of Infinite Varieties, which Fr. Cekada calls "Frankenchurch". The TLM is not publicly approved in order to defend Catholic doctrine and faith, but just so disaffected trads will have a niche amongst the novus ordo catholics, mariachi catholics, bongo catholics, protestant-hymn catholics, et. al. ! Most western trads are simply not taken in by this, and go their own way (sadly).

I do believe it's a correct character sketch of trads to say that we're generally introverted. It need not have been so, pre-Vatican II, but the public rejection of good old simple Latin Catholic faith has forced introverts and reclusive types to show their distinct & separate personality. What I mean is this: in the old days, a shy but traditional person could hide in the back of the pews or in the gallery of his church and pray at the Mass, whereas today if he has the strength of his convictions, he generally has to become schismatic. This creates a congregation of introverted people who aren't likely to evangelize or even invite anyone to the Traditional Latin Mass...

Personally, no evangelizing would be done by me. Traditionalism is all too scholastic and cold for me, and I don't like the idea of subjecting other people to it. Any inquirers would eventually just start asking why we're not united to the Holy See - or, if we are united to the Holy See, they'd ask why we feel the need to worship in an extra-ordinary way, separating ourselves from the family in a certain sense. Given the chaos of our age,almost anything we say would hurt their faith in the united Catholic Church, and make the faith into a laughing stock.

The first step to evangelization is genuine prayer - something the "New Evangelization" rhetoricians seem to have forgotten.
(05-01-2014, 04:22 AM)Carthusian Wrote: [ -> ]traditional Catholics are TERRIBLE at evangelizing. 

i would say all are, not just "traditionals"

ive never been evangelized/proselytized  to by a catholic.

LDS, JWs, and the baptists all day long.

(05-01-2014, 10:18 AM)Heorot Wrote: [ -> ]I think the official & approved diocesan TLM doesn't get as many people as it might for two reasons:

1. Most Catholics are 1960s children or were brought up by 1960s children, and the prayerful Mass is alien to them.
2. Most Traditional Catholics realize that the olive branch of Summorum Pontificum isn't all it's cracked up to be.

As for #1, it's pretty obvious to me that the most popular novus ordo Masses are ones with guitar, tambourine, and "lay participation". People are shallow, and they like pianos and other worldly instruments to entertain them. Syrupy "praise and worship songs" are the order of the day. How on Earth do you think such flower-children will even have an interest in gregorian chant and renaissance polyphony? It's like getting water out of a stone without a staff.

As for #2, the elevation of the Latin Mass to a public position is just part of the Church of Infinite Varieties, which Fr. Cekada calls "Frankenchurch". The TLM is not publicly approved in order to defend Catholic doctrine and faith, but just so disaffected trads will have a niche amongst the novus ordo catholics, mariachi catholics, bongo catholics, protestant-hymn catholics, et. al. ! Most western trads are simply not taken in by this, and go their own way (sadly).

I do believe it's a correct character sketch of trads to say that we're generally introverted. It need not have been so, pre-Vatican II, but the public rejection of good old simple Latin Catholic faith has forced introverts and reclusive types to show their distinct & separate personality. What I mean is this: in the old days, a shy but traditional person could hide in the back of the pews or in the gallery of his church and pray at the Mass, whereas today if he has the strength of his convictions, he generally has to become schismatic. This creates a congregation of introverted people who aren't likely to evangelize or even invite anyone to the Traditional Latin Mass...

Personally, no evangelizing would be done by me. Traditionalism is all too scholastic and cold for me, and I don't like the idea of subjecting other people to it. Any inquirers would eventually just start asking why we're not united to the Holy See - or, if we are united to the Holy See, they'd ask why we feel the need to worship in an extra-ordinary way, separating ourselves from the family in a certain sense. Given the chaos of our age,almost anything we say would hurt their faith in the united Catholic Church, and make the faith into a laughing stock.

The first step to evangelization is genuine prayer - something the "New Evangelization" rhetoricians seem to have forgotten.

I don't think this is quite fair. Everything we do must be underpinned by prayer and even the most heinous of guitar-strumming hippie Catholics aim to foster a prayer life that is genuine and intimate. Your complaints re 1 are perfectly justified, I think - there is no sense of the aesthetic in the world anymore (something von Balthasar was eager to remedy). If the dominant culture in the West has denied the special dignity of the human person, why would the human voice take precedence over the sounds of other instruments? I dislike organs during the liturgy just as much as guitars, pianos, harps or whatever else. However if people continue to instrumentalize one another, and the human person is one instrument among many, they're not going to believe that a voice raised in worship is substantially different from anything else - even in the Mass. I was at a "Christian concert" (not strictly Catholic though some Catholics participated) where many voices were synthesized, overlaying prerecorded and obnoxiously loud rhythms. I think that says it all.
Any ideas on how they did the study? If they're just going by self-professed Catholics, then they're likely getting a lot of people who go to their school's "Catholic Center" which is about as Catholic as the Baptist church down your street. I certainly wasn't getting aquainted with tradition from my local parish: it came from the internet. So if they're sampling from parishes and not Catholics in general, then they're probably going to have a tough time finding them. Any knowledgeable Catholic would stay at least 250 feet away from their local campus Catholic center at all times.
(05-01-2014, 10:56 AM)phattonez Wrote: [ -> ]Any ideas on how they did the study? If they're just going by self-professed Catholics, then they're likely getting a lot of people who go to their school's "Catholic Center" which is about as Catholic as the Baptist church down your street. I certainly wasn't getting aquainted with tradition from my local parish: it came from the internet. So if they're sampling from parishes and not Catholics in general, then they're probably going to have a tough time finding them. Any knowledgeable Catholic would stay at least 250 feet away from their local campus Catholic center at all times.

Catholics love to hate on other Catholics - twas always so!
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