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http://www.creativeminorityreport.com/20...f-new.html


:'((  :incense:


Traditional Priest Kicked Out Of New York



"A few weeks ago, Fr. Justin Wylie, a priest from South Africa who works at the U.N. and helps serve the Traditional Catholic community at Holy Innocents, which is threatened with closure, gave a homily that included some words about how the traditional community is treated in NY.

It was polite and charitable, but also plain spoken about the situation in NY. Fr. Z. covered the remarks here and I reproduce some of them below.

Now it is being reported [by Christine Niles] that Fr. Wylie has had his faculties in NY revoked and he is being sent home.


Fr. Justin Wylie, a good priest, has been sent packing to his home diocese of Johannesburg. Why? For speaking out eloquently & charitably on behalf of the community at Holy Innocents Church, which is targeted for possible closure by the NYC archdiocese.

This is an injustice.

Please write a respectful letter to Cdl. Dolan: Communications@archny.org
This is an injustice.


I will admit that detail is minimal right now, but this is a potentially troubling development and perhaps a sign of the times for traditionalists.  I will stay on top of this story as it develops more clearly.


Excerpts from homily.



As I said: during the dark days of prohibition, New York seemed to be a happy place to be for you because of the indult-masses at places like St. Agnes, but in the fresh juridical freedom Summorum Pontificum brings, New York has become, in my view, a less felicitous place for traditional Catholics: because nothing is structured, nothing acknowledged. Who takes responsibility for you pastorally?

Pastores dabo vobis, the Lord promises Jeremiah: I will give you shepherds!Fundamentally – and this is something about which I urge you to think well and pray much about – as a priest, I have to say: I worry about the situation of traditional Catholics in the Archdiocese. Yes, the archdiocese ‘permits’ a traditional mass here or there — but responsibility for the matter continues to rest upon the initiative and resourcefulness of the laity, who with enormous difficulty have to source priests hither and thither as though we were seemingly still living in Reformation England or Cromwellian Ireland. Isn’t it high time for the Church to take pastoral responsibility also for these sheep? Do they not deserve a shepherd? a parish? or at least some sense of juridical security? What happens to you when the parish you are harbouring in closes its doors? 

What will become of the priestly vocations aplenty I see in these numerous young men of such quality as we have in abundance serving here at Holy Innocents, St. Agnes and elsewhere – remaining as they do at the mercy (and sometimes, caprice) of ‘landlords’ who, for one reason or another, ‘permit’ their presence in their parishes? Doors everywere seem closing to them. Our Saviour has closed its doors to them. St. Agnes, for its part, guards its doors vigilantly to make sure they don’t enter the building 5 minutes too early or don’t overstay their welcome by 5 minutes more. Now, it seems, the doors of Holy Innocents will be closed to them, too. Taken together, this is, in my view, a clear instance of exclusion: an injustice which you should bring to the attention of your shepherd, I think. You are fully-fledged members of the baptised Faithful, for heaven’s sake: why are you scurrying about like ecclesiastical scavengers, hoping for a scrap or two to fall from the table for your very existence? The precariousness of your community cannot hinge on a church building being available to you as though you were a mere sodality or guild. The days of renting space in hotels and the like must surely be over. You are not schismatics! Are you schismatics?

Whatever happens to Holy Innocents – and this will be the decision of your chief-shepherd here, who will base his decision on more information than any of us has at his or her disposal – you need to assert that you belong to the Church as fully as any other community. You have found a home here, largely through your own hard work and perseverence: no good shepherd could dispossess you of your home without providing safety and good pasture elsewhere. Parishioners of a Novus ordo parish closure might easily find another ‘home’ nearby; but what of you? You have a right to find the Mass (and not only on Sundays); and not only the Mass, but the other sacraments and rites of the Church. Closing this parish is more akin to closing a linguistic parish or a Oriental rite parish. What becomes of you?

No longer, I say, should you think of yourselves as squatters in the mighty edifice of Holy Church, nor should you find yourselves turned out like squatters. Shepherds must needs make difficult decisions, such as the erection or suppression of parishes – that is their onerous duty and in this they must have our obedience, charity and prayer: but never should they throw open the sheep-fold and allow the uncertain dispersion of their sheep into a world full of wolves. Charity, of course, is a two-way street."







To all Fishies/Trads: We all need to do something about this. We need to sign the petitions, fax letters, send emails, even call up the Arch.
of NYC. In a respectful, nice way. But, we need to take action.
And of course pray a lot regarding this issue. Pray for this wonderful Priest & to keep Holy Innocents open.


An interesting  & sad comment:


24 May 2014 at 11:31 am


"Well if they close Holy Innocents, it will be the second time the archdiocese has done this to the EF community. In 2003-04, after the EF and Armenian communities had spent over 1 million dollars to restore the National Shrine of St. Anne’s, the Archdiocese sold it to NYU and tore it down. The very same community raised almost a half million to restore the Brumidi and other priceless artwork in the church. The work is done. The place looks great. And now here comes the wrecking ball again. Sorry folks if I feel like I asked for bread and got handed a serpent"
This situation (and I don't mean just Holy Innocents closing or possibly closing) needs many many Rosaries prayed. We are nearing the end of this the first great apostasy, which I believe is the precursor to the son of perdition. Thus we need to prepare ourselves for the mystical crucifixion and death of the Church by prayer, fasting, sacrifice and "universal and constant mortification". We need to pray to God the Holy Ghost for His divine strength now more than ever.
This is why the SSPX truly is necessary.
(06-10-2014, 07:16 PM)Jacafamala Wrote: [ -> ]This is why the SSPX truly is necessary.
the sspx in NYC doesn't have daily mass.  They have a Sunday mass.  I think the priest lives in Connecticut so he's not around to meet the pastoral needs of the flock during the week.

I thought I'd check it out once but the veteran's hall that hosted it is not wheelchair accessible. 

Holy innocents has daily mass and I can get into the building so for me, SSPX: 0, Diocese: 1
(06-10-2014, 07:36 PM)Chestertonian Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-10-2014, 07:16 PM)Jacafamala Wrote: [ -> ]This is why the SSPX truly is necessary.
the sspx in NYC doesn't have daily mass.  They have a Sunday mass.  I think the priest lives in Connecticut so he's not around to meet the pastoral needs of the flock during the week.

I thought I'd check it out once but the veteran's hall that hosted it is not wheelchair accessible. 

Holy innocents has daily mass and I can get into the building so for me, SSPX: 0, Diocese: 1

Until Holy Innocents is closed down.

I just got done talking to a friend about this in an email. I told him I haven't posted in these Holy Innocents threads except to start one because I am so angry. Not just angry, but hurt. I feel pain from this, and I'm not even a New Yorker. I am not a quick-to-anger type, but this sort of thing -- this, and what was done to the Franciscans -- is in-your-face hideous and insulting and ugly. Evil. Don't these Bishops see where the religious and priestly vocations are, where they're coming from? They simply cannot be that blind or stupid as to not know. So what are we left to believe? It seems as if they're positively willing to destroy the human element of the Church as a goal in itself, or are, at least, willing to allow it destroyed as a side effect of reaching some other goal -- and I say this as someone who is extremely wary of and careful when assigning motives to people. But what other possibility could there be, assuming they do know where the vocations are -- which, again, I can't imagine their not knowing? Is it that they don't care about or hate the Church? Or are they so wedded to their little "new springtime" (that's brought forth nothing but dead, lifeless sticks) that it's a matter of ego, of their not being able to withstand watching the NO banalities crumble all around them and seeing the orthodox win in the end? Unless there is another possibility out there that hasn't occurred to me, I can't see any other way of understanding all of this without the cause being rooted in one of those things.  What am I possibly overlooking?

(06-10-2014, 10:40 PM)Vox Clamantis Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-10-2014, 07:36 PM)Chestertonian Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-10-2014, 07:16 PM)Jacafamala Wrote: [ -> ]This is why the SSPX truly is necessary.
the sspx in NYC doesn't have daily mass.  They have a Sunday mass.  I think the priest lives in Connecticut so he's not around to meet the pastoral needs of the flock during the week.

I thought I'd check it out once but the veteran's hall that hosted it is not wheelchair accessible. 

Holy innocents has daily mass and I can get into the building so for me, SSPX: 0, Diocese: 1

Until Holy Innocents is closed down.

I just got done talking to a friend about this in an email. I told him I haven't posted in these Holy Innocents threads except to start one because I am so angry. Not just angry, but hurt. I feel pain from this, and I'm not even a New Yorker. I am not a quick-to-anger type, but this sort of thing -- this, and what was done to the Franciscans -- is in-your-face hideous and insulting and ugly. Evil. Don't these Bishops see where the religious and priestly vocations are, where they're coming from? They simply cannot be that blind or stupid as to not know. So what are we left to believe? It seems as if they're positively willing to destroy the human element of the Church as a goal in itself, or are, at least, willing to allow it destroyed as a side effect of reaching some other goal -- and I say this as someone who is extremely wary of and careful when assigning motives to people. But what other possibility could there be, assuming they do know where the vocations are -- which, again, I can't imagine their not knowing? Is it that they don't care about or hate the Church? Or are they so wedded to their little "new springtime" (that's brought forth nothing but dead, lifeless sticks) that it's a matter of ego, of their not being able to withstand watching the NO banalities crumble all around them and seeing the orthodox win in the end? Unless there is another possibility out there that hasn't occurred to me, I can't see any other way of understanding all of this without the cause being rooted in one of those things.  What am I possibly overlooking?

Enemies have entered the Church. They want to change its fundamental orientation because they know they can't destroy it. My best guess here.
(06-10-2014, 07:03 PM)GodFirst Wrote: [ -> ]This situation (and I don't mean just Holy Innocents closing or possibly closing) needs many many Rosaries prayed. We are nearing the end of this the first great apostasy, which I believe is the precursor to the son of perdition. Thus we need to prepare ourselves for the mystical crucifixion and death of the Church by prayer, fasting, sacrifice and "universal and constant mortification". We need to pray to God the Holy Ghost for His divine strength now more than ever.


:incense: :pray2: Lots of prayers & action needed. Please, everyone help out Holy Innocents. If we do not take action, then who will?


New York is the abortion capital, and now Holy Innocents is about to vanish...Think of the irony.
Everyday I check online hoping to hear some positive news about the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate, and now this.  I am with Vox, with what she said.  What are we supposed to think?  One would have to stay in a constant, deep, and exhausting state of denial to not wonder where all this is going.  Perhaps it is exactly what we fear it is.  ???
(06-10-2014, 10:40 PM)Vox Clamantis Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-10-2014, 07:36 PM)Chestertonian Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-10-2014, 07:16 PM)Jacafamala Wrote: [ -> ]This is why the SSPX truly is necessary.
the sspx in NYC doesn't have daily mass.  They have a Sunday mass.  I think the priest lives in Connecticut so he's not around to meet the pastoral needs of the flock during the week.

I thought I'd check it out once but the veteran's hall that hosted it is not wheelchair accessible. 

Holy innocents has daily mass and I can get into the building so for me, SSPX: 0, Diocese: 1

Until Holy Innocents is closed down.

I just got done talking to a friend about this in an email. I told him I haven't posted in these Holy Innocents threads except to start one because I am so angry. Not just angry, but hurt. I feel pain from this, and I'm not even a New Yorker. I am not a quick-to-anger type, but this sort of thing -- this, and what was done to the Franciscans -- is in-your-face hideous and insulting and ugly. Evil. Don't these Bishops see where the religious and priestly vocations are, where they're coming from? They simply cannot be that blind or stupid as to not know. So what are we left to believe? It seems as if they're positively willing to destroy the human element of the Church as a goal in itself, or are, at least, willing to allow it destroyed as a side effect of reaching some other goal -- and I say this as someone who is extremely wary of and careful when assigning motives to people. But what other possibility could there be, assuming they do know where the vocations are -- which, again, I can't imagine their not knowing? Is it that they don't care about or hate the Church? Or are they so wedded to their little "new springtime" (that's brought forth nothing but dead, lifeless sticks) that it's a matter of ego, of their not being able to withstand watching the NO banalities crumble all around them and seeing the orthodox win in the end? Unless there is another possibility out there that hasn't occurred to me, I can't see any other way of understanding all of this without the cause being rooted in one of those things.  What am I possibly overlooking?

How would you compare this to the situation of the faithful during the Arian crisis? Didn't people have to go to small structures, basically shacks, in order to celebrate a Mass that didn't deny the divnity of Christ? I'm admittedly quite ignorant about the period.
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