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I believe that Thomas Merton has been greatly misunderstood and could be a bridge to the younger generation. I have read everything he has written  (some multiple times) and look forward to wonderful conversation about this. I would explain further but I would rather have a conversation than write a paper.
Perhaps there is something you would like to propose that we read to discuss? Something short? A chapter or something? I read something by him eons ago and frankly don't remember it and don't remember finding it impressive in any way, but as I say, it was just one thing, and I don't remember what it was.

Maybe you could explain in just a few words why a "guide to traditionalism." Sounds intriguing.
(06-28-2014, 08:55 AM)maldon Wrote: [ -> ]Perhaps there is something you would like to propose that we read to discuss? Something short? A chapter or something? I read something by him eons ago and frankly don't remember it and don't remember finding it impressive in any way, but as I say, it was just one thing, and I don't remember what it was.

Maybe you could explain in just a few words why a "guide to traditionalism." Sounds intriguing

Very well...I believe that (and the Church) teaches that contemplative prayer is the most important form of prayer. The current model being taught is "centering prayer". It is nothing more than mantras repeated. Thomas Merton is credited with starting this movement and I would be very happy to challenge anyone persons belief on this.He never taught that form of prayer, EVER!

Our Church does not need a new form of worship. What the Church needs to be focused on is worshiping God in the spirit. We need to, "pray without ceasing". This is what contemplative prayer leads to.

The youth have always seemed to "feel" the truth in something. My evangelical friends leave the True Mass speechless!!

I am certainly probably posting more for Merton fans and critics alike. For recommendation I would read Seeds of Contemplation, The Living Bread, Waters of Siloe, etc..Stay away from Seven Story Mountain I would say because although you learn a lot about him, his books reflecting on prayer are the true treasures. His journals are wonderful as well. He is reflecting on his thoughts of Vatican 2 as it is happening. His love of the True Mass and Divine Office, and rosary are sure models for any traditionalist. His explaining the beauty in every part  so wonderfully..

Finally I would recommend his poetry. Its all online. Dayton has all of his Marian poetry. Hagia Sophia I guess would be considered his masterpiece.

Hope this helps! I would be happy to go further if need be.

[Modified by Vox to fix quoting problem]
(06-28-2014, 10:02 AM)markheel Wrote: [ -> ]Very well...I believe that (and the Church) teaches that contemplative prayer is the most important form of prayer. The current model being taught is "centering prayer". It is nothing more than mantras repeated. Thomas Merton is credited with starting this movement and I would be very happy to challenge anyone persons belief on this.He never taught that form of prayer, EVER!

I think Merton was the door way that allowed people like Pennington and Keating to begin their centering prayer movement.  Merton, Cloud of Unknowing and other Medieval Mystical writings have nothing to do with centering prayer.  I am not fully familiar with Merton, but his earlier writings were more solid whereas the writings toward the end of his life were far less solid.  But most medieval mystics were influenced by the poverty movement and that humility was the road to love and ultimately union with God.   
I think that Merton and a lot of people that tradionalists traditionally don't like are the key to tradition. St Augustine is another example. I can't stomach logic being the first principle of morality or truth like the schools of decart Kant but most importantly aquinas seem to teach.
(06-28-2014, 10:02 AM)markheel Wrote: [ -> ]I believe that (and the Church) teaches that contemplative prayer is the most important form of prayer. The current model being taught is "centering prayer". It is nothing more than mantras repeated. Thomas Merton is credited with starting this movement and I would be very happy to challenge anyone persons belief on this.He never taught that form of prayer, EVER!

Our Church does not need a new form of worship. What the Church needs to be focused on is worshiping God in the spirit. We need to, "pray without ceasing". This is what contemplative prayer leads to.

Mark,

You're absolutely correct.

There are two books that I would strongly recommend to any Catholic serious about deepening his prayer life.  Each teaches contemplative prayer and each is thoroughly Catholic.

1.  Fire Within, by Fr. Thomas DuBay.

2.  Difficulties in Mental Prayer, by Dom Eugene Boylan.

[Image: 51dkD0ntFYL.jpg] [Image: 51pqyPbXy-L.jpg]
(06-28-2014, 02:06 PM)AntoniusMaximus Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-28-2014, 10:02 AM)markheel Wrote: [ -> ]Very well...I believe that (and the Church) teaches that contemplative prayer is the most important form of prayer. The current model being taught is "centering prayer". It is nothing more than mantras repeated. Thomas Merton is credited with starting this movement and I would be very happy to challenge anyone persons belief on this.He never taught that form of prayer, EVER!

I think Merton was the door way that allowed people like Pennington and Keating to begin their centering prayer movement.  Merton, Cloud of Unknowing and other Medieval Mystical writings have nothing to do with centering prayer.  I am not fully familiar with Merton, but his earlier writings were more solid whereas the writings toward the end of his life were far less solid.  But most medieval mystics were influenced by the poverty movement and that humility was the road to love and ultimately union with God.   


Why do you think it was Merton? See there really is a big missing piece to this puzzle and it is this, the Church was promoting a very active evangelization. The only thing Merton did was get lucky. I mean how else does a cloistered contemplative monk have a bestseller.The problem is that you have to have the interior to have the active. (Aquinas). The Church is losing thousands to evangelical churches because they are entertaining and we are modernizing to entertain. This is essential for the Spirit of the Body of Christ!!!!

Merton may have introduced the monastic way to millions but he did not teach that God could be summoned with self hypnosis!! He taught the way out of an ego that trivializes prayer to a grocery list.
(06-28-2014, 03:52 PM)markheel Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-28-2014, 02:06 PM)AntoniusMaximus Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-28-2014, 10:02 AM)markheel Wrote: [ -> ]Very well...I believe that (and the Church) teaches that contemplative prayer is the most important form of prayer. The current model being taught is "centering prayer". It is nothing more than mantras repeated. Thomas Merton is credited with starting this movement and I would be very happy to challenge anyone persons belief on this.He never taught that form of prayer, EVER!

I think Merton was the door way that allowed people like Pennington and Keating to begin their centering prayer movement.  Merton, Cloud of Unknowing and other Medieval Mystical writings have nothing to do with centering prayer.  I am not fully familiar with Merton, but his earlier writings were more solid whereas the writings toward the end of his life were far less solid.  But most medieval mystics were influenced by the poverty movement and that humility was the road to love and ultimately union with God.   


Why do you think it was Merton? See there really is a big missing piece to this puzzle and it is this, the Church was promoting a very active evangelization. The only thing Merton did was get lucky. I mean how else does a cloistered contemplative monk have a bestseller.The problem is that you have to have the interior to have the active. (Aquinas). The Church is losing thousands to evangelical churches because they are entertaining and we are modernizing to entertain. This is essential for the Spirit of the Body of Christ!!!!

Merton may have introduced the monastic way to millions but he did not teach that God could be summoned with self hypnosis!! He taught the way out of an ego that trivializes prayer to a grocery list.

Profoundly one of the best books on people who are active and have apostolates is The Soul of The Apostolate by Dom Chautard

[Image: souloftheapostolate_zps3717723e.jpg]

https://tanbooks.benedictpress.com/index...postolate/
Lectio Divina and the Practice of Teresian Prayer by Morello OCD, Sam Anthony (Jan 9, 2013)

This is a fairly new book .  It makes the subject easy to understand and practice! :)

BTW it is available  at amazon
I do recommend Soul of the Aposolate and Fr. Thomas Dubay's Fire Within for reading, both excellent books.  

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