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Its ALL ABOUT SOULS!!!

http://www.spiritdaily.com/flamelovebook2.htm

MESSAGES IN FINAL YEARS OF APPROVED HUNGARIAN MYSTIC CALLED CHURCH TO BETTER DEVOTION AND CITED 'GRAVE DANGERS' FOR THE WORLD

Toward the end of her life -- in the 1980s -- the prophetic messages granted in Church-approved revelations to the Hungarian mystic Elizabeth Kindelmann grew all the more urgent.

As we previously pointed out [see article], Kindelmann, who lived from 1913 to 1985, received what she called the "Flame of Love" messages, which had the full approval of Cardinal Péter Erdö, the primate of Hungary and archbishop for the diocese of Eszertom-Budapest, who in an official pronouncement on June 1, 2009 formally recognized and "solemnly promulgated" the approbation, along with other cardinals (one of whom wrote the forward for her diary, which we've decided to distribute).

On January 1, 1981, for example, Kindelmann noted that "we must increase beyond the usual measure the intensity of our prayers and sacrifices for peace in the world and for the salvation of souls. We have to reach new heights."

That day, she reported a message whereby she said Jesus told her: "Every parish must urgently organize communities of prayers of atonement, blessing one another with the Sign of the Cross [including strangers]."

It was the year -- 1981 -- that Pope John Paul II was shot. Later that year, prayer groups would begin to erupt from apparitions in what was then Communist Yugoslavia. And still later that same year, Mary would appear in Church-sanctioned apparitions in Rwanda.

The Blessed Mother, claimed Kindelmann, asked in March that "we urge the competent authorities for the restoration of the Third Order of Carmel throughout the world. This must happen quickly and everywhere. Humanity needs lay people who have a spirit of prayer."

In fact much of what she was "told" was directed to the Church.

"The Church and the whole world is in grave danger," Jesus was quoted as telling her in a locution in 1980. "Even with your strength, you cannot change the situation. The Most Holy Trinity alone can help you, through the concerted intercession of the Most Blessed Virgin, all the angels, all the saints, and those souls whom you have freed from purgatory."

Dramatic stuff. Clearly, the worry was not just about Catholicism -- though just as clearly, Church happenings and trends were indicated as a concern.

It was urged that there be a special fast on Mondays. "When priests observe the Monday fast, in all the Holy Masses that they celebrate that week, at the moment of Consecration, they will free innumerable souls from purgatory," Mary allegedly told the mystic.

While fasting, noted Kindelmann, "we can eat bread abundantly and drink water. We can put salt on the bread. We can take vitamins, medicines, and whatever is necessary to our condition. However, we should not enjoy it."

"Whoever usually keeps the fast, it suffices to keep it until six p.m.," she quoted Mary as adding. "In this case, they should recite this very day five decades of the Rosary for the souls."

"The Flame of the heart of My mother is Noah's Ark," she quoted Jesus, via an alleged locution, as saying (for our discernment).

She also quoted the Lord as stating that a "multitude of people should petition the Holy Father for an official declaration of the effusion of the Flame of Love of our Hearts [Sacred and Immaculate] for the whole world.

"Our petition is urgent," she further quoted Jesus as saying. "There is no time for delays. Let the faithful together with the priests satisfy our petition in a great spiritual oneness. The effusion of graces will also reach the souls of the non-baptized with its effect of Grace."

http://ocarm.org/en/content/ocarm/third-order
I don't understand how one can put much stock in this.  Christ certainly must have the power to reveal himself and his will to the whole world, yet he doesn't.  God gave us rational brains and he expects us to use them, not dismiss them, correct?  It does not make rational sense that Christ would place a message of such detrimental importance to the whole world in the visions of one person, where reason demands we reject them, rather than and because Christ could certainly make this message plain to the whole world if he so desired.  Either this is fake, or Christ's desire is for the world to not receive him and blame it on them when they don't.  Not really the act of a loving God.
I don't put stock in visions of any kind, especially those that are excessively apocalyptic in tone, and that includes La Sallette,Fatima,etc. Not to say the Church approved ones aren't true, only that focusing on them does nothing for me spiritually.Regular time spent praying the Divine Office,canons,akathists and the Jesus Prayer are enough for me. As far as the world being in grave danger is concerned, I'd say not really, not as long as God is in charge. Maybe I never left the world denying tendencies of Buddhism behind but I do not care a whit for the world being saved. We live in a fallen world andshouldn't expect much nor fear excessively. Everyone dies eventually and than we will be judged by the merciful Lord. we should be more concerned for our souls than for our bodies and the world. As long as we keep the faith, maintain a spirit of prayer and do the best we can as Christians than who cares if the sky falls around us? In the light and life of Heaven all the woes of the world will be as less than nothing, smoke and ashes.
I find myself in agreement with both Melkite and Formerbuddhist.  "Visions" such as those mentioned may or may not be what they claim to be, but they make little or no difference in my own spiritual life, in my relationship with Christ and with the world.

I remember someone once asking an Orthodox priest why visions such as these and phenomena such as stigmata, etc. seem to occur much more frequently in the Catholic (Western) world than in the Orthodox (Eastern) world.  His reply was somewhat cryptic, but here it is: "Because they need these kinds of things."  I don't recall there being much of an elaboration on that, so...take it as you will.
(07-25-2014, 10:13 AM)J Michael Wrote: [ -> ]I find myself in agreement with both Melkite and Formerbuddhist.  "Visions" such as those mentioned may or may not be what they claim to be, but they make little or no difference in my own spiritual life, in my relationship with Christ and with the world.

I remember someone once asking an Orthodox priest why visions such as these and phenomena such as stigmata, etc. seem to occur much more frequently in the Catholic (Western) world than in the Orthodox (Eastern) world.  His reply was somewhat cryptic, but here it is: "Because they need these kinds of things."  I don't recall there being much of an elaboration on that, so...take it as you will.

That's probably why these signs do not occur among the Lutherans and Calvinists. Their faith is so strong that they don't need folks like Padre Pio.
:eyeroll:
(07-25-2014, 10:52 AM)Renatus Frater Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-25-2014, 10:13 AM)J Michael Wrote: [ -> ]I find myself in agreement with both Melkite and Formerbuddhist.  "Visions" such as those mentioned may or may not be what they claim to be, but they make little or no difference in my own spiritual life, in my relationship with Christ and with the world.

I remember someone once asking an Orthodox priest why visions such as these and phenomena such as stigmata, etc. seem to occur much more frequently in the Catholic (Western) world than in the Orthodox (Eastern) world.  His reply was somewhat cryptic, but here it is: "Because they need these kinds of things."  I don't recall there being much of an elaboration on that, so...take it as you will.

That's probably why these signs do not occur among the Lutherans and Calvinists. Their faith is so strong that they don't need folks like Padre Pio.
:eyeroll:

I have little to no knowledge of the strength of faith of Lutherans and Calvinists.  But...maybe you're right, that is, if strength of faith is the criterion for the appearance or lack thereof of these signs.  Certainly amongst both Western Catholics, Eastern Catholics, and Orthodox of all varieties, strength of faith varies from zero to 100 (on an arbitrary scale of 0-100.)
(07-25-2014, 11:11 AM)J Michael Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-25-2014, 10:52 AM)Renatus Frater Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-25-2014, 10:13 AM)J Michael Wrote: [ -> ]I find myself in agreement with both Melkite and Formerbuddhist.  "Visions" such as those mentioned may or may not be what they claim to be, but they make little or no difference in my own spiritual life, in my relationship with Christ and with the world.

I remember someone once asking an Orthodox priest why visions such as these and phenomena such as stigmata, etc. seem to occur much more frequently in the Catholic (Western) world than in the Orthodox (Eastern) world.  His reply was somewhat cryptic, but here it is: "Because they need these kinds of things."  I don't recall there being much of an elaboration on that, so...take it as you will.

That's probably why these signs do not occur among the Lutherans and Calvinists. Their faith is so strong that they don't need folks like Padre Pio.
:eyeroll:

I have little to no knowledge of the strength of faith of Lutherans and Calvinists.  But...maybe you're right, that is, if strength of faith is the criterion for the appearance or lack thereof of these signs.  Certainly amongst both Western Catholics, Eastern Catholics, and Orthodox of all varieties, strength of faith varies from zero to 100 (on an arbitrary scale of 0-100.)

I think its the Eastern priest you quoted who implied that miracles are distributed to those of little faith, not me. My point was that its not about faith or lack of faith.
It would seem to me that the miracles you mentioned, like the stigmata (and I would also say the Eucharistic miracles, etc.) are signs. I would be tempted to interpret them as signs of where the Church is.
(07-25-2014, 11:35 AM)Renatus Frater Wrote: [ -> ]I think its the Eastern priest you quoted who implied that miracles are distributed to those of little faith, not me. My point was that its not about faith or lack of faith.
It would seem to me that the miracles you mentioned, like the stigmata (and I would also say the Eucharistic miracles, etc.) are signs. I would be tempted to interpret them as signs of where the Church is.

I don't know anything about what J Michael is referencing, but I have noticed a strong trend where in western Christianity, miracles tend to be seen as rewards for great faith, whereas in eastern Christianity they tend to be seen as signs for those of weak faith; they're God slapping you on the back of the head and saying "hey, moron, I'm real".
(07-25-2014, 11:35 AM)Renatus Frater Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-25-2014, 11:11 AM)J Michael Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-25-2014, 10:52 AM)Renatus Frater Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-25-2014, 10:13 AM)J Michael Wrote: [ -> ]I find myself in agreement with both Melkite and Formerbuddhist.  "Visions" such as those mentioned may or may not be what they claim to be, but they make little or no difference in my own spiritual life, in my relationship with Christ and with the world.

I remember someone once asking an Orthodox priest why visions such as these and phenomena such as stigmata, etc. seem to occur much more frequently in the Catholic (Western) world than in the Orthodox (Eastern) world.  His reply was somewhat cryptic, but here it is: "Because they need these kinds of things."  I don't recall there being much of an elaboration on that, so...take it as you will.

That's probably why these signs do not occur among the Lutherans and Calvinists. Their faith is so strong that they don't need folks like Padre Pio.
:eyeroll:

I have little to no knowledge of the strength of faith of Lutherans and Calvinists.  But...maybe you're right, that is, if strength of faith is the criterion for the appearance or lack thereof of these signs.  Certainly amongst both Western Catholics, Eastern Catholics, and Orthodox of all varieties, strength of faith varies from zero to 100 (on an arbitrary scale of 0-100.)

I think its the Eastern priest you quoted who implied that miracles are distributed to those of little faith, not me. My point was that its not about faith or lack of faith.
It would seem to me that the miracles you mentioned, like the stigmata (and I would also say the Eucharistic miracles, etc.) are signs. I would be tempted to interpret them as signs of where the Church is.

To be honest, I'm not really sure what the priest was implying, which is why I wrote, "I don't recall there being much of an elaboration on that, so...take it as you will."  I would agree that said miracles may indeed be signs.  But it's above my pay-grade to speculate about, much less know what they are signs of.  If they are, as you interpret, signs of where the Church is, that kind of begs the question, "why are there not many, many more of them?" especially amongst the Eastern Church.  It also prompts me to ask, does God ONLY perform or allow miracles within the Church?

To quote Met. Kallistos Ware (amongst others), "We know where the Church is.  We do not know where it is not."
(07-25-2014, 11:45 AM)Dirigible Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-25-2014, 11:35 AM)Renatus Frater Wrote: [ -> ]I think its the Eastern priest you quoted who implied that miracles are distributed to those of little faith, not me. My point was that its not about faith or lack of faith.
It would seem to me that the miracles you mentioned, like the stigmata (and I would also say the Eucharistic miracles, etc.) are signs. I would be tempted to interpret them as signs of where the Church is.

I don't know anything about what J Michael is referencing, but I have noticed a strong trend where in western Christianity, miracles tend to be seen as rewards for great faith, whereas in eastern Christianity they tend to be seen as signs for those of weak faith;[size=10pt] they're God slapping you on the back of the head and saying "hey, moron, I'm real".[/size]

Anymore these days, I seem to be in need of such a slap on the back of the head.

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