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(08-05-2014, 02:53 PM)ThomasTheDoubter Wrote: [ -> ]17And these signs will accompany those who believe: In My name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new languages;

18they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."

Why would God send signs for no reason? If you won't believe for His words believe on Him on account of the miracles He does. The miracle at Fatima is an important sign to prepare us for what is coming.

Why (or is it "how"?) would we "prepare" for what is coming, as per Fatima, any differently than we would prepare for our own deaths and our judgment before Christ? 
It tells us beforehand not to be scandalized by the state of the Church. If we didn't have these prophecies before this crises became visible we might doubt if the Catholic Church is who she claims to be. Of all the disciples only John remained faithful, and he was with the Blessed Mother. Is that a coincidence?

If God sent no prophets what would the Jews do when disaster fell upon them?
(08-05-2014, 12:53 PM)CaptCrunch73 Wrote: [ -> ]
(08-05-2014, 12:06 PM)ThomasTheDoubter Wrote: [ -> ]I think that you guys need to take up devotion to the Blessed Mother. I pray the complete Rosary everyday and I take great comfort that she has warned us numerous times about this crises. She promised a complete restoration some day even if it seems impossible right now. Wear the brown scapular, consecrate yourself to her and place confidence in her. JPII said that the dragon is sweeping a third of the stars from heaven. I interpret it as some of the clergy no longer leading the way to heaven. If the water becoming wormwood refers to false teachings this is what it appears to be happening with all these novel teachings. Men are drinking this poisoned water. But stick to the traditional teaching and strive to become a saint. If it weren't for her I'm not even sure if I would have found the faith.

Good advice Thomas the Doubter AND welcome back!

Thank you. :)
(08-06-2014, 01:07 AM)ThomasTheDoubter Wrote: [ -> ]It tells us beforehand not to be scandalized by the state of the Church. If we didn't have these prophecies before this crises became visible we might doubt if the Catholic Church is who she claims to be. Of all the disciples only John remained faithful, and he was with the Blessed Mother. Is that a coincidence?

If by "Catholic Church" you mean the Roman Catholic Church, there have already been many both before and after Fatima who doubt that she "is who she claims to be."

It is almost impossible, Fatima or no Fatima, "prophecies" or no "prophecies", for a discerning mind and soul NOT to be scandalized by what's been going on in the Roman Catholic Church---for a long time now.

(08-06-2014, 01:07 AM)ThomasTheDoubter Wrote: [ -> ]If God sent no prophets what would the Jews do when disaster fell upon them?

How would we ever know that this side of the Parousia?
(08-06-2014, 09:31 AM)J Michael Wrote: [ -> ]
(08-06-2014, 01:07 AM)ThomasTheDoubter Wrote: [ -> ]It tells us beforehand not to be scandalized by the state of the Church. If we didn't have these prophecies before this crises became visible we might doubt if the Catholic Church is who she claims to be. Of all the disciples only John remained faithful, and he was with the Blessed Mother. Is that a coincidence?

If by "Catholic Church" you mean the Roman Catholic Church, there have already been many both before and after Fatima who doubt that she "is who she claims to be."

It is almost impossible, Fatima or no Fatima, "prophecies" or no "prophecies", for a discerning mind and soul NOT to be scandalized by what's been going on in the Roman Catholic Church---for a long time now.

(08-06-2014, 01:07 AM)ThomasTheDoubter Wrote: [ -> ]If God sent no prophets what would the Jews do when disaster fell upon them?

How would we ever know that this side of the Parousia?

The only way Fatima can really strengthen ones faith is if you already are a Roman Catholic; aside from that it could be simply a demonic delusion. Who cares if there were atheists that saw the supposed miracle of the sun, I mean, satan could do some sleight of hand trick to fool people. I know that the Roman Catholic Church gives credence to Fatima, but if you don't believe in the authority of the Roman Catholic Church that means very little. Things like Fatima can strengthen the Faith of Catholics but that's about it. In general though, we are not asked to believe in any alleged locution, vision, apparition or miracle no matter how well attested. We are indeed weak and sinful and for some of us signs, wonders and prophecies can be a boost but we should ask for the grace to follow Our Lord without need of visionaries, apparitions and the like, or without even consolations in prayer. God will not ask us at the Last Judgement whether or not we followed mystics and visionaries or alleged apparitions.

And yes J Michael, it's well nigh impossible to not be scandalized by the happenings in the Roman Catholic Church, Fatima or no Fatima. There has never, ever in history been a crisis in the very heart of the Roman Catholic Church quite like todays. There would not be groups like the SSPX or Sedevacantists or the millions leaving Rome for Pentecostalist, Seventh Day Adventist and other Evangelical sects if it were utterly apparent that the Roman Catholic Church post Vatican II were actually the True Church. It is not apparent no matter how many apologists wish to say otherwise.
There is ample precedent both for massive, prevalent heterodoxy (Arianism) and for rampant moral laxity and corruption in the clergy.

Hence, Chaucer tells us in The Parson's Tale:

Quote:This noble example to his sheep he gave
That first he wrought, and afterwards he taught;
And it was from the Gospel he had caught
Those words, and he would add this figure too,
That if gold rust, what then will iron do?
For if a priest be foul in whom we trust
No wonder that a common man should rust;
And shame it is to see -- let priests take stock --
A s*h*i*t*t*e*n shepherd and a snowy flock.

Geoffrey Chaucer, Canterbury Tales, 14th Century.
I should also mention The Book of Gomorrah, by St. Peter Damian, an 11th Century treatise against homosexual activity among members of the clergy.

Obviously, it was a serious problem in the 11th Century.
(08-06-2014, 12:23 PM)Clare Brigid Wrote: [ -> ]I should also mention The Book of Gomorrah, by St. Peter Damian, an 11th Century treatise against homosexual activity among members of the clergy.

Obviously, it was a serious problem in the 11th Century.

And since long before that, too, I'm afraid.
(08-06-2014, 12:03 PM)Clare Brigid Wrote: [ -> ]There is ample precedent both for massive, prevalent heterodoxy (Arianism) and for rampant moral laxity and corruption in the clergy.

Hence, Chaucer tells us in The Parson's Tale:

Quote:This noble example to his sheep he gave
That first he wrought, and afterwards he taught;
And it was from the Gospel he had caught
Those words, and he would add this figure too,
That if gold rust, what then will iron do?
For if a priest be foul in whom we trust
No wonder that a common man should rust;
And shame it is to see -- let priests take stock --
A s*h*i*t*t*e*n shepherd and a snowy flock.

Geoffrey Chaucer, Canterbury Tales, 14th Century.

To some, Roman Catholics are the heterodox.

Moral laxity and corruption has been around since, well...pretty shortly after Adam took the "apple" from Eve and ate of it.  Like The Preacher says, "Nothing new under the sun".
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