FishEaters Traditional Catholic Forums

Full Version: Can Catholics even preach anymore?
You're currently viewing a stripped down version of our content. View the full version with proper formatting.
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Friends,

As the Novus Ordo heresy of relativism, obscurantism, and modernism spreads like wildfire in the Church, I am beginning to wonder how faithful Catholics are supposed to proclaim the Gospel to anyone. If we do, the hierarchy will contradict us.

If we try to say to anyone that Christ is THE Way, THE Truth, and THE Life - without which there is no everlasting life for man - we will be in continuity with the Catholic Past, but not with the Catholic Present.

If we try to become missionaries and go to far away deserts and jungles, saying Christ is the center of the Universe and the Son of the One and only God, who has forgiven all our sins by His glorious love for us, we will be speaking the immemorial Truth of the Gospel, but not the "truth" of the modern Church.

Everywhere I go, deacons, priests, and bishops preach nothing but tolerance, love, equality, community, and kindness. These are good things, but they are incomplete. There's nothing like the sermons of the Acts of the Apostles anymore. Even the local Franciscans - the most orthodox preachers around here - never talk about sin, redemption, or the atonement. Christ is only mentioned in-so-far as He is part of the Gospel story.

This is bothering me very deeply. I do not feel like it would be right to move my own parents toward Catholicism, because I know that even if they deigned to attend Mass, they would be fed syrupy relativist nothingness. If they joined us and become faithful Catholics, they would receive gall and vinegar, not fresh water. I cannot tell them - or anyone - that Catholicism has the fullness of Truth, because the Church Herself doesn't seem to teach or believe it anymore. I would be saying what is True, but everyone else would be for lying.

How do we cope with this? What do we do?
I'm curious, what is particularly orthodox about the Franciscans if they don't talk about sin, redemption, or the atonement?
(08-02-2014, 10:38 AM)Dirigible Wrote: [ -> ]I'm curious, what is particularly orthodox about the Franciscans if they don't talk about sin, redemption, or the atonement?

I used a relative term to describe them, not an absolute term. They are the most orthodox around here; that is, in comparison with diocesan and other religious priests/preachers. Although they never speak about fundamentals, they also tend not to be heretical in the subjects that they do talk about. I still would not lead prospective converts to them, because I know they'd never get the fullness of the faith. That is the issue that bothers me so much. How can I recommend anyone to the Catholic Church, which has become so relativist and ecumenical?
My reply is not very deep, but I just tell people that they need to go trad, e.g. SSPX, or at least any TLM. I add that they need to read old literature. I usually remember to explain that we get what we deserve, so, if it's hard to find the Church that's because of our sins. With the Internet, it is so easy to find good information now. YouTube has a lot of helpful homilies on it now, and there are other resources. You can even donate money to keep them going!  :crazy:
But traddom is simply an anachronistic niche in the smorgasbord of modern post Conciliar.Catholicism. Catholics must take into account the rupture if Vatican II and the words and actions of modern popes and prelates. There is little credibility left in Rome in my eyes. You can quote Aquinas,Garrigou LaGrange and the 1917 code of.canon law till you're blue in the face but its all pointless in the light of Vatican II,JPII and Francis. The old stuff is just the old stuff; its been rejected, superseded, cast out, if not in words explicitly than at least through silence and through the actions of the last several Popes and the majority of the.episcopate. Seriously, this Pope just apologized to evangelical heretics (not seperated brethen!) for the Catholic Church hindering their heresy! This ship has sunk.
(08-02-2014, 11:38 AM)formerbuddhist Wrote: [ -> ]But traddom is simply an anachronistic niche in the smorgasbord of modern post Conciliar.Catholicism. Catholics must take into account the rupture if Vatican II and the words and actions of modern popes and prelates. There is little credibility left in Rome in my eyes. You can quote Aquinas,Garrigou LaGrange and the 1917 code of.canon law till you're blue in the face but its all pointless in the light of Vatican II,JPII and Francis. The old stuff is just the old stuff; its been rejected, superseded, cast out, if not in words explicitly than at least through silence and through the actions of the last several Popes and the majority of the.episcopate. Seriously, this Pope just apologized to evangelical heretics (not seperated brethen!) for the Catholic Church hindering their heresy! This ship has sunk.

That's precisely my horrible thought. There are two options here: either it has truly sunk, or it has only hit some shoals from which it will slowly dislodge itself over time.

If the Ship has truly sunk, either it was never The One True Church, or Christ was wrong promising His Gospel would be kept, fully, until the end of the world (Luke 21:32, Matthew 24:34). Since Christ is God and therefore inerrant, only the first option is possible in this scenario. Where will you go, then? Who has the words of eternal life preserved?

If the Ship has not sunk but is only lodged in a difficult place, we Catholics who actually believe in absolute truth, sin, redemption, atonment, and the depths of our Faith, need to find a way to bring people around us to Christ without His own Church hindering our efforts!

Massive cognitive dissonance.
All this is just bringing me to reconsider Orthodoxy. I don't believe Christ could fail, but I do believe its possible that I was wrong that Roman Catholicism was the truest expression of the apostolic faith. I'm more comfortable with Orthodoxy than ever now, and like I've said before, its not a rash spur of the moment thing, is been carefully weighed, agonized about and prayed over for years. Its not like I'm just wowed by incense.and icons and angry at the Novus Ordo--its deeper than that. As the former Benedictine hermit turned Orthodox hieromonk Gabriel Bunge said, Rome has been a series of ruptures from the East,Vatican.II is just the latest. I cannot play the game of "but we are the true Church within the Church" game of Roman Catholic trafitionalism. Even.if Vatican II was just pastoral which I reject, after all its decrees have remade the Church top to bottom in its image, its words are set like jewels in the new catechism,new code of can law,new sacramental rites etc. its still a rupture that will be debated ad nauseam for centuries. Whatever trads might say its a new beginning a  rupture. There are certainly signs of hope at the grassroots level but from an official standpoint its business as usual. There is no going back from the Council. I'm convinced of that. Trads must accept that they are anachronisms in a Church that has moved on. Not even the modern Popes seem interested in normative traditional Catholicism. It looks as if the Roman Catholic Church literally decided in the 1960's that it wad going to abandon wholesale and repudiate its patrimony, its rituals, its prayers, its idioms and than have the nerve to change everything and still call it Catholicism! The insanity of it all is mindboggling. I just can deal with it.
Well...I'm not allowed to proselytise for non-Catholic faiths, but, you know...there is a suggestion in my avatar.  :Hmm:

(not literally the words, of course  :P)
I sympathize wholly, formerbuddhist. This is one of the most agonizing times in Christian history.

(08-02-2014, 12:04 PM)Dirigible Wrote: [ -> ]Well...I'm not allowed to proselytise for non-Catholic faiths, but, you know...there is a suggestion in my avatar.  :Hmm:

(not literally the words, of course  :P)

At least you're friendly about it.  :LOL: We respect you and your convictions here. Praise God. At least the Orthodox know whom they worship, and they worship accordingly.
(08-02-2014, 12:07 PM)Heorot Wrote: [ -> ]I sympathize wholly, formerbuddhist. This is one of the most agonizing times in Christian history.

(08-02-2014, 12:04 PM)Dirigible Wrote: [ -> ]Well...I'm not allowed to proselytise for non-Catholic faiths, but, you know...there is a suggestion in my avatar.  :Hmm:

(not literally the words, of course  :P)

At least you're friendly about it.  :LOL: We respect you and your convictions here. Praise God. At least the Orthodox know whom they worship, and they worship accordingly.
  Well, you could do like Dr. Pangloss, and tend to your garden, praying to our Holy Mother and our Lord, to be merciful and to the Holy Spirit to guide our Church. 

In his book, the Decline and Fall of the Roman Church, Malachi Martin states that things began to go wrong when the Church became a state church with Constantine.  I totally agree with him. 
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7