FishEaters Traditional Catholic Forums

Full Version: Big Fan of Voris. Done with the "Lesé-majesté " policy
You're currently viewing a stripped down version of our content. View the full version with proper formatting.
Pages: 1 2 3 4
(09-20-2014, 02:49 PM)austenbosten Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-20-2014, 02:22 PM)spikepaga Wrote: [ -> ]Worring about Dolan leading a parade  with gays is INSIGNIFICANT compared to what Pope Francis and Cardinal Kasper are trying to achieve in the upcoming Synod and the fact that the heads of conservative Cardinals keep on getting personally cut of by the Pope. The story IS NOT Dolan. Not by a long shot

I think the big differences between Mr. Matt and Mr. Voris, is that Michael Voris criticises actions the bishop has already done, while men like Mr. Matt and Ferarra are criticising actions that have not happened. Voris is acting upon actions of the Bishop, Matt is acting upon fears.

We don't know what will happen at the synod, we do know for a fact that the synod is being called because of the crisis in marriage in the world and the Church and the synod is to seek how to better teach Catholic Teaching on marriage to their dioceses.

Whether or not they try and "change anything" is pure speculation.

The fact the Pope agrees with Kasper's schema of destruction, even if the Holy Spirit keeps it from happening, is bad enough that we need to know about it.  The fact that Burke is getting a ceremonial post needs to be discussed.

And incidentally Dolan also "does not change anything" by participating and approving of the parade. But just like the Pope he causes confusion and despair with his actions.

As we know very well already it's not necessary to officially "change anything" to inflict damage and destruction.  Just give the impression you are thru your words and actions and you can turn the world upside down.

Voris keeps on talking about the so-called Revolution and the revolutionaries,.......newsflash: their leader is the current Pope.
(09-20-2014, 08:18 AM)spikepaga Wrote: [ -> ]This Pope is a loose canon and a liability for the Church. It's like Vatican 2 on steroids and embodied in a single individual. If the Church can survive this Pope

I am 31...

"IF" the Church can survive this pope? 

There's no "if" about it; the Church WILL survive this pope, just like She has survived every other pope.

You are young.  Don't despair.  Read Church history.  I suggest reading The Oxford Dictionary of Popes.  It was written by a pro Catholic Anglican and is a fair and concise presentation of history.

The history of the popes is one long disaster after another. 

We've had popes openly contradicting past popes, digging up their bodies and excommunicating them (Pope Formosus episode), popes aligning themselves with anti-Catholic powers, papal elections erupting into physical battles, popes being elected by a handful of cardinals in secret, popes buying their offices, popes dying while visiting their mistresses (John XII), et cetera.

The Church survived them; She will survive Francis.  In fact, She will survive all of them until the end of time.  No "ifs" about it.

I was born during the reign of Pope Pius XII, lived through "the changes" and witnessed the destruction firsthand.  You want to talk about depressing?  Try rearing a Catholic family through the 60s, 70s, and 80s, when nearly everything in the Church seemed to be against you.

And yet... the Church is still here.  I'm here; you're here.  This pope could be gone tomorrow and be replaced with a pope that is more of a Traditionalist bent.  Although the pickings are slim, there are some out there.

I forget who said it, but a staunch Catholic once made the statement:  "Pray and punch."

Keep fighting.  You're 31 and living proof that the Church WILL survive... this pope and every pope.
Given all this talk, I really don't know how any of you could have survived the Protestant revolt. Seriously



(09-20-2014, 03:33 PM)spikepaga Wrote: [ -> ]The fact the Pope agrees with Kasper's schema of destruction,
You got a confirmed quote on that?

Quote:The fact that Burke is getting a ceremonial post needs to be discussed.
Rumours are not facts. No matter how much the blogosphere and media is soooo sure about.

Quote:But just like the Pope he causes confusion and despair with his actions.
The Pope cannot help it, if the media decides to twist his words and the bloggosphere armchair-popes want to shout "heresy!" Comparing what Cdl Dolan did, to the twisting of Holy Father's words is uncharitable and illogical. What Cdl Dolan did is wrong, Pope Francis is not guilty of any public sin, other than being probably the most misunderstood pope in history.

Quote:As we know very well already it's not necessary to officially "change anything" to inflict damage and destruction.  Just give the impression you are thru your words and actions and you can turn the world upside down.
What through the world "upside down" with Vatican II, was the result of bad bishops and priests....not Pope Paul VI. Let's be honest...had Vatican II not have happened...we would most likely still be here in the same situation...or worse, because at least with Vatican II...we have people pointing to a serious crisis in the Chruch.

Quote:Voris keeps on talking about the so-called Revolution and the revolutionaries,.......newsflash: their leader is the current Pope.
Can you please explain what His Holiness has done that is soooo revolutionary? Other than choosing not to wear the shoes of a fisherman?  :eyeroll:

Once again, I hear this talk from Trads about how "Francis is destroying the Church" or "he's a radical leader and thinker"....yet has anyone here bothered to read Evangelii Gaudium? Has Francis made any horrible decree that allows the LWRC go nuts and shout "yeah!" or allowed "gay-marryge"

All I hear from trads is Chicken Little and still we are here coming up 2 years....and nothing big has happened so far regarding the destruction of the Church.
Your observations are understandable.  There have been, from the time of Our Lord Himself, examples of weak men and women within and leading the Catholic Church.  Judas was an Apostle.  There have been some absolutely awful Popes.  In fact, there doesn't seem to have been a time in the Church when there weren't serious examples of infidelity and decadence.  But, as you well know, the Church is still here.  The Passion of Our Lord continues in His Mystical Body, the Church, and our daily Vortex episodes are replete with contemporary examples of perfidy and malfeasance.  From the beginning it has always seemed that now would be a perfect time for Jesus to come again.

We choose not to subject the present Holy Father, Pope Francis, and his predecessors, to the same public criticism that we give to Cardinals, Bishops, Priests and "professional Catholics." It is understandable that you, and many others, judge this to be an inconsistency on our part. It is, but only if one fails to make important distinctions, not least of which is that the Church is founded on the Rock that is Peter and his successors and not on those who are merely successors of the Apostles.  Without Peter there is no Church.  Our Faith informs us that Peter can even deny Our Lord yet still enjoy Our Lord's protection and favor.  Not so anyone else, including one of the original Twelve.

So we draw a line, a very consciously drawn line, which we will not cross and criticize the Pope publicly.  We are as aware as anyone that there have been and even are troubling words and deeds of Popes, including recent ones.  Most people would become aware of these papal "failings" for the first time if they heard about them from us.  We do not wish to give that kind of scandal.  We also do not intend to be mindless cheerleaders for the indefensible (e.g., "Proselytism is solemn nonsense").  We choose to protect the good name and reputation both of the office and person of the Holy Father.

We have addressed the issue of “public criticism of the Pope” on several occasions:

FAQ: ChurchMilitant.TV Will Not Engage in Public Criticism of the Pope http://www.churchmilitant.tv/faq/papalcriticism.php

It Always Comes Back to the Pope

The Pope is Different

Tell the Pope, Not the World

Disobeying the Pope

In the Vortex episode “Be A Man!” ()  we do not address the issue of “papal criticism” directly but, rather, discuss the very related issue of “consequences” to be expected when anyone, lay or clerical, confronts a member of the hierarchy, even in private, with particular emphasis on the “consequences” risked by priests.

We also encourage listening to the following sermons by a priest of the FSSP, who tackles the problem(s) of the Pope AND the crisis in the Church and tells us how to respond as faithful Catholics:

Christ is the Point http://files.audiosancto.org/20131020-Ch...-Point.mp3

Spiritual Contraception http://files.audiosancto.org/20131027-Sp...eption.mp3

Don’t Follow the Leader Over the Cliff http://files.audiosancto.org/20140504-Go...Sunday.mp3

Storm Clouds on the Horizon http://files.audiosancto.org/20140810-St...orizon.mp3

These videos and sermons say, in our judgment, all that needs to be said on these issues.  They provide much food for thought, prayer and meditation to help us find our way through the "devastated vineyard" in the "desolate city" of the Church today.
(09-20-2014, 02:10 PM)austenbosten Wrote: [ -> ]I agree with Michael Voris. What good does it to constantly criticise a Pope, who let's be honest. All I see is hyped-up fear among Trads that he's going to "change Church Teaching" that he's going to "ban the Extraordinary Form" that he's going to "allow divorced and re-married people Holy Communion"

Nothing but a bunch of pent up fear and nonsense from a group of people who do nothing but look at everything His Holiness does with a critical eye. I was part of that group and I will still say that I prefer Benedict to Francis, but I am really getting sick and tired of these so-called "Traditional Catholics" doing nothing but trashing the Pope and every-thing he does.

Louie Verracchio is a perfect example. I really like him, but so far I've had to turn off the blog, because the man simply is just filled with bitterness and anger towards the Holy Father. He spends all his time trashing Pope Francis and St John Paul II and I have to ask...how does all this harsh and uncharitable criticism do anything to help one's Faith and bring them closer to God?

This constant criticism and harshness does nothing more than expose a group of Catholics who show no unity and would rather bitch than pray and for an outsider looking in...who would want to sign up for that?

At first I was critical of Michael Voris refusing to go after Pope Francis, but seeing how The Remnant and Louie's blog has literally gone off the rails and spend all their waking energy criticising Pope Francis and screaming Chicken Little....I really see the wisdom in Michael Voris's choice.

MHO

i just avoid reading stuff from these people. If I do read the news I start fearing the pope and start having doubts if I'm even in the true church.
(09-20-2014, 05:09 PM)austenbosten Wrote: [ -> ]Given all this talk, I really don't know how any of you could have survived the Protestant revolt. Seriously



(09-20-2014, 03:33 PM)spikepaga Wrote: [ -> ]The fact the Pope agrees with Kasper's schema of destruction,
You got a confirmed quote on that?

Quote:The fact that Burke is getting a ceremonial post needs to be discussed.
Rumours are not facts. No matter how much the blogosphere and media is soooo sure about.

Quote:But just like the Pope he causes confusion and despair with his actions.
The Pope cannot help it, if the media decides to twist his words and the bloggosphere armchair-popes want to shout "heresy!" Comparing what Cdl Dolan did, to the twisting of Holy Father's words is uncharitable and illogical. What Cdl Dolan did is wrong, Pope Francis is not guilty of any public sin, other than being probably the most misunderstood pope in history.

Quote:As we know very well already it's not necessary to officially "change anything" to inflict damage and destruction.  Just give the impression you are thru your words and actions and you can turn the world upside down.
What through the world "upside down" with Vatican II, was the result of bad bishops and priests....not Pope Paul VI. Let's be honest...had Vatican II not have happened...we would most likely still be here in the same situation...or worse, because at least with Vatican II...we have people pointing to a serious crisis in the Chruch.

Quote:Voris keeps on talking about the so-called Revolution and the revolutionaries,.......newsflash: their leader is the current Pope.
Can you please explain what His Holiness has done that is soooo revolutionary? Other than choosing not to wear the shoes of a fisherman?  :eyeroll:

Once again, I hear this talk from Trads about how "Francis is destroying the Church" or "he's a radical leader and thinker"....yet has anyone here bothered to read Evangelii Gaudium? Has Francis made any horrible decree that allows the LWRC go nuts and shout "yeah!" or allowed "gay-marryge"

All I hear from trads is Chicken Little and still we are here coming up 2 years....and nothing big has happened so far regarding the destruction of the Church.
It is clear from your posts that you are a Pope Francis apologist of the highest order. It's not the media that is doing the best job of spinning the Holy Father's words and actions, it's folks like you. Sometimes, though, one just can't polish a turd no matter how hard one tries.

Here's that quote you were looking for:

"Yesterday, before falling asleep, though not to fall asleep, I read, or re-read, Cardinal Kasper’s remarks. I would like to thank him, because I found a deep theology, and serene thoughts in theology. It is nice to read serene theology. It did me well and I had an idea, and excuse me if I embarrass Your Eminence, but the idea is: this is called doing theology while kneeling. Thank you. Thank you.” -Pope Francis

http://t.news.va/en/news/pope-francis-at...ry-session

Sounds like he's supporting Kasper's message to me.

I'll respond to the rest of your post later when I have more time.

MDA
(09-21-2014, 07:29 AM)missadeangelis Wrote: [ -> ]It is clear from your posts that you are a Pope Francis apologist of the highest order. It's not the media that is doing the best job of spinning the Holy Father's words and actions, it's folks like you. Sometimes, though, one just can't polish a turd no matter how hard one tries.

Here's that quote you were looking for:

"Yesterday, before falling asleep, though not to fall asleep, I read, or re-read, Cardinal Kasper’s remarks. I would like to thank him, because I found a deep theology, and serene thoughts in theology. It is nice to read serene theology. It did me well and I had an idea, and excuse me if I embarrass Your Eminence, but the idea is: this is called doing theology while kneeling. Thank you. Thank you.” -Pope Francis

http://t.news.va/en/news/pope-francis-at...ry-session

Sounds like he's supporting Kasper's message to me.

I'll respond to the rest of your post later when I have more time.

MDA
:eyeroll:

I'm always amused by the so-called "trad" hive mindset that if one doesn't agree with the narrative that Pope Francis is this being evil, heretical destroyer of Catholicism....then somehow he/she must be "an apologist" or "Neo-Cath".

Where did I ever spin His Holiness's words? All I simply did was ask questions, made an honest point that "rumours are not facts" and pointed out that the Holy Father has not done near the horrible things certain trads expect him to do. All of these would not classify as spinning, but simply making a point that is not part of the collective group of naysaying.

Maybe you need to turn off the Fox News and stop thinking everything is on a Left-Right/"with me or with the terrorists" paradigm.
(09-21-2014, 10:49 AM)austenbosten Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-21-2014, 07:29 AM)missadeangelis Wrote: [ -> ]It is clear from your posts that you are a Pope Francis apologist of the highest order. It's not the media that is doing the best job of spinning the Holy Father's words and actions, it's folks like you. Sometimes, though, one just can't polish a turd no matter how hard one tries.

Here's that quote you were looking for:

"Yesterday, before falling asleep, though not to fall asleep, I read, or re-read, Cardinal Kasper’s remarks. I would like to thank him, because I found a deep theology, and serene thoughts in theology. It is nice to read serene theology. It did me well and I had an idea, and excuse me if I embarrass Your Eminence, but the idea is: this is called doing theology while kneeling. Thank you. Thank you.” -Pope Francis

http://t.news.va/en/news/pope-francis-at...ry-session

Sounds like he's supporting Kasper's message to me.

I'll respond to the rest of your post later when I have more time.

MDA
:eyeroll:

I'm always amused by the so-called "trad" hive mindset that if one doesn't agree with the narrative that Pope Francis is this being evil, heretical destroyer of Catholicism....then somehow he/she must be "an apologist" or "Neo-Cath".

Where did I ever spin His Holiness's words? All I simply did was ask questions, made an honest point that "rumours are not facts" and pointed out that the Holy Father has not done near the horrible things certain trads expect him to do. All of these would not classify as spinning, but simply making a point that is not part of the collective group of naysaying.

Maybe you need to turn off the Fox News and stop thinking everything is on a Left-Right/"with me or with the terrorists" paradigm.
Look, you're on virtually every thread even slightly critical of the Pope telling people they're wrong and its just a bad translation or a misunderstanding or "this is what he really meant" or using some other tactic. That is what qualifies you as a Francis "apologist". I'm not saying Pope Francis is evil, I am chiefly suggesting that he speaks and acts imprudently and causes much confusion among Catholics.

I note that you didn't comment on the quote I provided in my previous post. I ask you now, do you concede that the Pope supports Cardinal Kaspers theology regarding communion for the divorced and remarried (since that is what the Pope was referring to)?  ???

As for the notion that had Vatican II not happened the Church would still be in the crisis it finds itself in - that is laughable. We wouldn't have ecumenism, dialogue and near universalism or the "Church of Nice" for starters. And if there was never a "spirit" of Vatican II we likely wouldn't have "many calamities, so many problems, so much misery, in reality: seminaries closed, convents closed, liturgy trivialized." to quote HH Benedict XVI.

You seem to have a genuine dislike or lack of respect for "trads" in general. Why you choose to post on a traditional Catholic forum rather than somewhere more friendly to anti-trads like CAF I don't understand.

Alas, I concede I do watch Fox news, but as a Canadian I watch it mostly for entertainment purposes.  :LOL:
I agree with the OP. I am also a fan of Michael Voris, I love his stuff. However, I find it a bit disingenuous to hammer away at Cardinal Dolan over his acceptance of homosexuality, his religious indiferentism, and his lack of doctrinal precision, when these are all characteristics of Francis´ papacy.

I fail to understand the official explanation that Church Militant has posted in this thread about their policy to never publicly criticise a Pope. They are either unaware that publicly criticising a superior is sometimes a DUTY of a catholic when the Faith is at stake, as St. Thomas writes, or else (more probably) they are afraid of losing viewers if they direct their vitriole at Rome. I hope they do not turn into what they have so bravely denounced: "professional catholics".

As Mr. Matt says, Dolan is only doing what his boss does. To use a simple mataphore, if a firm is losing money, who is ultimately responsible; the heads of the various departments, or the Director General? If we think of the Church as a multinational firm, the buck stops at the Pope. Ultimately he is responsable for all the bishops in the world, because they owe him their office in the first place, and he can depose any of them at a stroke of his pen.

The problem is that the Church deals in immortal souls, not money. We must pray for Pope Francis, that he might restore Tradition to the Church. However, sometimes we also have to speak out. If we truly care about the salvation of souls we should not become complicit through our silence with the spiritual devastation that is causing so many to lose the faith, leading millions to Hell.
(09-21-2014, 03:20 PM)missadeangelis Wrote: [ -> ]Look, you're on virtually every thread even slightly critical of the Pope telling people they're wrong and its just a bad translation or a misunderstanding or "this is what he really meant" or using some other tactic.
That's an exaggeration and I simply just post my thoughts on topics. The reason I seem to be on every thread "critical" of the Pope, is because almost every thread is a critical thread of the Pope.

Quote:That is what qualifies you as a Francis "apologist". I'm not saying Pope Francis is evil, I am chiefly suggesting that he speaks and acts imprudently and causes much confusion among Catholics.

No it qualifies me as a Catholic who simply disagrees with you. You do not hear me calling you a "Francis-hater"

Quote:I note that you didn't comment on the quote I provided in my previous post. I ask you now, do you concede that the Pope supports Cardinal Kaspers theology regarding communion for the divorced and remarried (since that is what the Pope was referring to)?  ???

I did not read anywhere stating that the Pope supports Cdl Kaspers specific theology on Communion for divorced and remarried...just that he read his work and found a serene theology...it could mean anything.

Quote:As for the notion that had Vatican II not happened the Church would still be in the crisis it finds itself in - that is laughable. We wouldn't have ecumenism, dialogue and near universalism or the "Church of Nice" for starters. And if there was never a "spirit" of Vatican II we likely wouldn't have "many calamities, so many problems, so much misery, in reality: seminaries closed, convents closed, liturgy trivialized." to quote HH Benedict XVI.

Then you are one of those who believe that there was no brewing crisis in the Church before Vatican II....even Ven Pope Pio XII admitted there was a problem.

If you don't think that we would not still be here with or without Vatican II....then you somehow think that a document most people never have read (even those who condone or condemn it) magically turned all these humble and pious priests and bishops into heretics.

The rotten fruits were already spoiling the bunch long before the NO and Vatican II.

Quote:You seem to have a genuine dislike or lack of respect for "trads" in general. Why you choose to post on a traditional Catholic forum rather than somewhere more friendly to anti-trads like CAF I don't understand.

Because much to probably your surprise, I consider myself a Traditional Catholic. I just try and avoid being what Vox labels as a "toxic trad"

I tend to see a lot of hair-pulling and gnashing of teeth among people her at Fisheaters regarding Holy Father and I'm simply trying to be a voice of reason, rather than fan the flames of scandal.

Here is a link to what one would consider a toxic-trad:

www.fisheaters.com/abouttheforum.html#radtrad
Pages: 1 2 3 4