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Full Version: Well, They Voted : Church Teaching Won't Change
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Well there's only one vote that counts. It will be interesting to see how this turns out.
(10-18-2014, 04:07 PM)Silouan Wrote: [ -> ]Well there's only one vote that counts. It will be interesting to see how this turns out.

If they had voted otherwise, the media would have a field day and it would have made it so easy for finger pointing and allegations of "hate speech" when a Catholic reaffirmed Catholic teaching.

The title of this thread should really say "Church teaching won't change for another year", because what was decided upon today is just a draft. The final exhortation by Francis on this subject won't come until October or November 2015. I don't feel guilty admitting that I'm incredibly scared of what's going to come next. I don't trust the Jesuit Pope, and I don't trust the majority of the bishops in the world today. Praise God for Pell, Burke, Müller, Schneider, and a few others... but I feel really afraid about the future.
It was never an issue of whether the Church's teaching would change.  Even the radical cardinals made that statement.  The Church's teaching cannot change.

The issue is whether the pope and his allies are attempting to change the Church's praxis so as to make the teaching irrelevant.

Only the most gullible of persons would think that that is not the object of what is going on in this pontificate.  The problem of the Church is at its very summit.  We must pray, but we must also band together and publicly oppose the new orientation by all legitimate means at our disposal.

Popes are custodians, not owners.  The Church does not belong to the pope.
Wise words from Pope Francis's final speech:

Quote:[There is the] temptation of hostile rigidity: This is the desire to remain locked up in what is written and not to allow God, the Spirit, to surprise us — to stay locked up in the law, in the certainty of what we know and not in what we still have to learn and achieve. This is the temptation of the zealous, the scrupulous, the so-called “traditionalists” and also of the intellectualists.

The temptation of destructive do-good-ism, which in the name of a false mercy covers wounds without first treating them; this takes care of symptoms, not causes or roots. It is the temptation of “do-gooders”, of the fearful and also the so-called “progressives and liberalists.”

The temptation to transform stones into bread in order to put an end to a long, painful fast (Lk 4:1-4). Another temptation: to transform bread into stones and throw them at sinners, at the weak and the sick (Jn 8:5) and thus to burden them with an unbearable yoke (Lk 11:46).

The temptation to come down from the cross in order to please men, and not to remain there to fulfill the will of the Father; to bow down before the spirit of worldliness instead of purifying oneself and to bow before the Spirit of God.

The temptation to neglect the deposit of faith and to consider oneself not its custodian but its owner and lord, or on the other hand the temptation to neglect reality and to use a different language and speak in such a way that one talks a lot without saying anything!

From here.
(10-18-2014, 05:10 PM)ecclesiastes Wrote: [ -> ]Wise words from Pope Francis's final speech:

Quote:[There is the] temptation of hostile rigidity: This is the desire to remain locked up in what is written and not to allow God, the Spirit, to surprise us — to stay locked up in the law, in the certainty of what we know and not in what we still have to learn and achieve. This is the temptation of the zealous, the scrupulous, the so-called “traditionalists” and also of the intellectualists.

The temptation of destructive do-good-ism, which in the name of a false mercy covers wounds without first treating them; this takes care of symptoms, not causes or roots. It is the temptation of “do-gooders”, of the fearful and also the so-called “progressives and liberalists.”

The temptation to transform stones into bread in order to put an end to a long, painful fast (Lk 4:1-4). Another temptation: to transform bread into stones and throw them at sinners, at the weak and the sick (Jn 8:5) and thus to burden them with an unbearable yoke (Lk 11:46).

The temptation to come down from the cross in order to please men, and not to remain there to fulfill the will of the Father; to bow down before the spirit of worldliness instead of purifying oneself and to bow before the Spirit of God.

The temptation to neglect the deposit of faith and to consider oneself not its custodian but its owner and lord, or on the other hand the temptation to neglect reality and to use a different language and speak in such a way that one talks a lot without saying anything!

From here.
Also, these words. Probably the best quote from Pope Francis that I've seen since he was elected:
Quote:And this is the Church, the vineyard of the Lord, the fertile Mother and the caring Teacher, who is not afraid to roll up her sleeves to pour oil and wine on people’s wound; who doesn’t see humanity as a house of glass to judge or categorize people. This is the Church, One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic and composed of sinners, needful of God’s mercy. This is the Church, the true bride of Christ, who seeks to be faithful to her spouse and to her doctrine. It is the Church that is not afraid to eat and drink with prostitutes and publicans. The Church that has the doors wide open to receive the needy, the penitent, and not only the just or those who believe they are perfect! The Church that is not ashamed of the fallen brother and pretends not to see him, but on the contrary feels involved and almost obliged to lift him up and to encourage him to take up the journey again and accompany him toward a definitive encounter with her Spouse, in the heavenly Jerusalem.
(10-18-2014, 05:04 PM)DJR Wrote: [ -> ]It was never an issue of whether the Church's teaching would change.  Even the radical cardinals made that statement.  The Church's teaching cannot change.

The issue is whether the pope and his allies are attempting to change the Church's praxis so as to make the teaching irrelevant.

The answer is yes.

The method modernist heretics have employed time and again is to affirm past teachings while emptying them of meaning. This is just what Francis and his buddies are up to here. Change the "experience" and the moral principle will eventually disappear.

(10-18-2014, 05:04 PM)DJR Wrote: [ -> ]The Church does not belong to the pope.

Or vice versa.  Grin
Is it true that the 'controversial' paragraphs will be published anyway? And that next to each paragraph there will be provided information as to how many votes it got? I just read it somewhere. It said that the 'gay' paragraph had 118 for/62 against (and so less than 2/3 required). There was also something about admitting the divorced and remarried to spiritual communion. Well aren't they allowed already since always?
(10-18-2014, 05:10 PM)ecclesiastes Wrote: [ -> ]Wise words from Pope Francis's final speech:

Quote:[There is the] temptation of hostile rigidity: This is the desire to remain locked up in what is written and not to allow God, the Spirit, to surprise us — to stay locked up in the law, in the certainty of what we know and not in what we still have to learn and achieve. This is the temptation of the zealous, the scrupulous, the so-called “traditionalists” and also of the intellectualists.

The temptation of destructive do-good-ism, which in the name of a false mercy covers wounds without first treating them; this takes care of symptoms, not causes or roots. It is the temptation of “do-gooders”, of the fearful and also the so-called “progressives and liberalists.”

The temptation to transform stones into bread in order to put an end to a long, painful fast (Lk 4:1-4). Another temptation: to transform bread into stones and throw them at sinners, at the weak and the sick (Jn 8:5) and thus to burden them with an unbearable yoke (Lk 11:46).

The temptation to come down from the cross in order to please men, and not to remain there to fulfill the will of the Father; to bow down before the spirit of worldliness instead of purifying oneself and to bow before the Spirit of God.

The temptation to neglect the deposit of faith and to consider oneself not its custodian but its owner and lord, or on the other hand the temptation to neglect reality and to use a different language and speak in such a way that one talks a lot without saying anything!

From here.

Sounds like a lot of blather to me, and the pope's first statement is patently false.  It reflects his misperception of who "traditionalists," as he derides them, are, and what they stand for because he's not a "traditionalist."  It reflects a mindset of the so-called Charismatic Movement, which is not surprising, as he definitely has those tendencies.

The pope gives the appearance of being in the middle of two tendencies, but he's really not. 

For those of us born before "the changes," we were never called "traditionalists."  We were simply "Catholics."

I think it is easy to see where this is heading.  The pope's allies will be busy collaborating over the next 12 months to chip away at any opposition to their plans.  The pope will continue to make disastrous appointments to sees and dicasteries (the pickings are slim anyway), and "traditionalists" will continue to be marginalized.  Then next year the synod will open, and the enemies of the Faith will have had an entire year to get all their ducks in a row.

The real import of the pope's speech is further down, where he talks about papal authority.  It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand the message between the lines.  The pope is going to use the "authority" card to get the necessary things in place. 

"Traditionalists" need to start working now and getting together to oppose this orientation publicly and vociferously. 
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