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So my friend and I want to create a documentary that will promote the usage of the Latin Mass. We want to be able to do a video documentary that will interview priests who celebrate the Latin Mass, and other clergy who do so as well. This also includes lay people who attend the Tridentine Mass and ask them several questions such as "Why do you attend the Latin Mass?" "When did you first starting going there?" "How did you like it?"

If they are priests or other clergy some of the questions might be "Why do you celebrate the Latin Mass?" "When did you first celebrate it and what was your experience?"

The title of this documentary is meant to be rhetorical in a good way. Most people  know that the reason why the Latin Mass is called the "Extraordinary Form of the Mass" is because it is not the current norm "Ordinary Form" but rather an Indult. However as many of you may know, the word Extraordinary also has another significance, namely that it is beyond the ordinary "Beyond the Mundane"

For this reason I want this documentary not only to promote the usage of the Latin Mass but also explain the great theological and philosophical aspects which make up this form of the Mass, and furthermore the great means by which it expresses Lex Orandi Lex Credendi, "The Law of Prayer is the Law of Belief"

If anyone has any suggestions of any kind for the success of this documentary project please let me know either by continuing the thread discussion or by sending me a private discussion.

Please do know that I want this documentary to be as faithful to the Magesterium as possible. By Faithful I mean that I would rather keep those aspects such as the people that I will interview in good standing with the Church (such as those who attend or celebrate Mass through the Diocese, FSSP, ICKSP, Religious Orders, etc). I do not want to get into trouble and I do not want anyone else who may be volunteering in trouble either.

Brilliant! Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant! I'm so glad you're doing this, I can't tell you. We need a LOT more of this sort of thing!

My advice:

Think like a marketer and like "Hollywood." When you interview someone, put them in a good setting with interesting lighting, etc. Don't just put someone in a rectory office and interview them in front of a beige wall; put them in a pew, in front of a stained glass window when the Sun is shining. Make everything as gorgeous as you possibly can. BEAUTY is a huge draw, and traditional Catholicism has it in spades. Use it!

Use attractive people -- especially people younger folks could relate to. Also, if you could include an ex "wild child" or two, all the better -- the point being to assure young people that the TLM is for everyone, not just eggheads, not just for "the perfect people," etc. If you can also find a few really old people to talk about how it's the Mass they remember, that'd be great. I think young people are nostalgic for the past, for a time when there was order, romance, HOPE. Getting old people to talk about the "nostalgic" aspects of it all would be all to the good.

Talk about veiling, ask women -- preferably pretty females on the youngish side -- why they veil, how they feel when they veil, etc. Veiling is a big emotional draw to the Mass for women, even if they don't have the words to explain it. It simply is.

Emphasize the concept of heritage, of doing what our ancestors did for thousands of years, how the Mass was -- and is, should be -- the centerpiece of civilization itself. I think young people crave to feel rooted and a part of something much bigger than they are. Talk about the communion of Saints, History, feeling connected to the transcendent AND the past AND "the now" -- that last because of the Mass's obvious relevance for everyone at present.

Show lots of beautiful churches and Catholic art! Art, art, art! Go crazy with the art!

Talk about chant and use it in your video. If you can get a young person who chants at his/her church and can get him/her to talk about how they learned it and how others can learn it and be a part of it, all the better.

Include as many small-T traditions as you can (e.g., the lighting of votives as prayer). Ask people how the TLM has helped develop their religious lives, what devotions they've been inspired to practice, etc.

If you could ask any priests you interview on camera to wear cassocks do it!

Use contrast to emphasize the authenticity and ancientness of orthodox Christianity. For ex., you could start things off with some cheesy mega-church crap, some snippets of one of those Hagee types, all with a droll voice-over that talks about "Christianity" as it's commonly perceived -- you know, how people talk about "Christianity" in Youtube comments. Then segue to a bit from a TLM in a beautiful setting, with the voiceover now talking about true and authentic Christianity as it's been practiced for two millennia.

Of course, if I were you, I'd have the URL to FishEaters listed at the end, in huge letters, so people can find out more :P

BTW, I like the title "The Extraordinary Extraordinary Form" "P

Thanks for the reply Vox :)

I will be sure to add the Fisheaters website :)

Now the only thing I need to do is to buy some video equipment

Vox has it dead right on all counts. Often sheer aesthetics is what initially draws someone to the faith, and this is perfectly legitimate, because aesthetics is part of ethics.
You are aware of "Extraordinary Faith", currently airing on EWTN, aren't you? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfbI5hq...vkUX-hfgbw
I'm not saying that to discourage you, not at all, there cannot be enough of these, and there are many things that could be improved.

IMO (and that might be surprising) there should be a part about the Jewish roots of the TLM, about its similarity to temple worship, and the similarity of a Traditional Church layout to the Temple. There was an interesting interview on youtube (I think it was with parishioners of Ssa Trinita dei Pellegrini) with a convert from Judaism, and she said the TLM helps her connect with her Jewish roots.
The reason it should be in is that it shows that the modernizers did not just do away with "medieval superstitions", as they claim, but even with Traditions that date back to pre-Christian times, and thus with the links that connect the Old and the New Testament.
It is also often a good topic when discussing with liberals, when they get their ire worked up about things like the separation of the sanctuary and the restriction of people entering it, and suddenly realize that they are not only accusing Trads, but also Jews.
I don't know who would be a good person to talk to about this, though. Fr. Oppenheimer? But I think he is not a convert himself, he is the son of one.
(02-03-2015, 02:30 PM)Freudentaumel Wrote: [ -> ]You are aware of "Extraordinary Faith", currently airing on EWTN, aren't you? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfbI5hq...vkUX-hfgbw
I'm not saying that to discourage you, not at all, there cannot be enough of these, and there are many things that could be improved.

IMO (and that might be surprising) there should be a part about the Jewish roots of the TLM, about its similarity to temple worship, and the similarity of a Traditional Church layout to the Temple. There was an interesting interview on youtube (I think it was with parishioners of Ssa Trinita dei Pellegrini) with a convert from Judaism, and she said the TLM helps her connect with her Jewish roots.
The reason it should be in is that it shows that the modernizers did not just do away with "medieval superstitions", as they claim, but even with Traditions that date back to pre-Christian times, and thus with the links that connect the Old and the New Testament.
It is also often a good topic when discussing with liberals, when they get their ire worked up about things like the separation of the sanctuary and the restriction of people entering it, and suddenly realize that they are not only accusing Trads, but also Jews.
I don't know who would be a good person to talk to about this, though. Fr. Oppenheimer? But I think he is not a convert himself, he is the son of one.

Thanks for posting this :)

Yes I know about Extraordinary Faith (I have only seen about 1 or 2 episodes) this is one of the things that actually encouraged me to do this documentary. However the documentary that I am planning on doing is not a whole series but a single concise one which will incorporate various aspects (about 1 1/2 hours - 2 hour documentary.)

Thanks for posting about the Jewish roots of the Latin Mass. This is greatly appreciated. I have been interested in this aspect myself (such as the rood screen and the separation of the Holy of Holies)

Any advice is greatly welcomed. I want to emphasize as much as possible on the Latin Mass including the theology and philosophy, the history of it dating from Jewish times up until its implementation during the council of Trent and the gradual developments done at the times of Saint Pius X and later with the 1962 missal of Saint John XXIII

Does anyone know or identify specific things in the Traditional Latin Mass which have Jewish roots, which are not included in the Ordinary Form of the Mass?

I know that there are some specific feast dates such as the Feast of the Circumcision of Our Lord for example that is not included in the Ordinary Form (New Calendar)

I was wondering if there are any other concrete examples of Judaic roots which can easily be found in the Latin Mass and not in the Ordinary form, feast dates, rituals, etc...
(02-03-2015, 02:30 PM)Freudentaumel Wrote: [ -> ]You are aware of "Extraordinary Faith", currently airing on EWTN, aren't you? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfbI5hq...vkUX-hfgbw
I'm not saying that to discourage you, not at all, there cannot be enough of these, and there are many things that could be improved.

Yes, pleeease, definitely don't  be discouraged because EWTN is doing whatever it's doing. We need to FLOOD the world with information about and incitements to Tradition. Besides, I'd guess that whatever EWTN is doing, it's watering things down. And if you have your work on youtube, it's easily "transported" to any website, which'd make it a lot more accessible than some apostolates' work (like my work, for ex. I'm pretty much "stuck" with FE., sadly. I'd sooooo love to have video equipment/software, a car, and enough money to hire talent as needed to make videos myself. I think I'd absolutely LOVE making videos!)

(02-03-2015, 02:30 PM)Freudentaumel Wrote: [ -> ]IMO (and that might be surprising) there should be a part about the Jewish roots of the TLM, about its similarity to temple worship, and the similarity of a Traditional Church layout to the Temple. There was an interesting interview on youtube (I think it was with parishioners of Ssa Trinita dei Pellegrini) with a convert from Judaism, and she said the TLM helps her connect with her Jewish roots.
The reason it should be in is that it shows that the modernizers did not just do away with "medieval superstitions", as they claim, but even with Traditions that date back to pre-Christian times, and thus with the links that connect the Old and the New Testament.
It is also often a good topic when discussing with liberals, when they get their ire worked up about things like the separation of the sanctuary and the restriction of people entering it, and suddenly realize that they are not only accusing Trads, but also Jews.
I don't know who would be a good person to talk to about this, though. Fr. Oppenheimer? But I think he is not a convert himself, he is the son of one.

I think this is a genius idea. Because of all the Holocaust and "Fiddler on the Roof" stuff that Americans have shoved down their throats (coupled with the fact that any criticism of the post-Temple Jewish religion is, in essence, forbidden), there's a definite philosemitism out there. Because the Church is true Israel and draws many of Her traditions from the Old Testament religion, "cashing in" on that, using that to our benefit, is a great idea. The one qualm I'd have is to make it exceedingly clear that there is a HUGE difference between the Old Testament religion and modern Judaism., which is Pharisaic rabbinism based on the Talmud more than Torah or the rest of the Old Testament. In fact, I'd avoid using the word "Judaism," sticking with the "Old Testament religion" instead in order to make that clear. The conflation of the two is a serious problem, especially among American Christians. But the philosemitism aside, showing how truly ancient Catholicism is is a totally KEY thing to emphasize (the list of Popes starting with St. Peter, thrown in as an aside, is one of those facts that gets people thinking).

Anyway, here's list of stuff that made the segue from the Old Testament religion to Catholicism (found on this web page):

    Splendid, rich and ornate temple of God
    Priests in rich vestments
    Set readings from the Old Testament
    the Chanting of psalms
    the burning of incense
    an altar of sacrifice
    golden candlesticks
    the bread of the presence
    the holy of holies (the Catholic tabernacle)
    the lamp of the presence
    processions of priests and people
    the offering of the holy sacrifice
    The laver or font for cleansing the offerings
    water fonts for ritual ablutions before entering worship
    Beautiful decorations of fabrics, carvings and embroidery

You can read descriptions of the Temple from Josephus: http://www.fisheaters.com/temple.html

One of my favorite facts pertaining to the fulfillment of the Old Testament with the New is this, from something that writer and Jewish convert Roy Schoeman wrote about at the old Seattle Catholic website:

Quote:
Shortly put, the Talmud recounts that when the Temple stood in Jerusalem, the sins of the Jewish people were taken away each year on one day, Yom Kippur, the holiest day of the year, when the High Priest would enter the Holy of Holies with a sacrifice to atone for the sins of the people for the preceding year. Each year, a scarlet thread was affixed to the entry to the Holy of Holies, and miraculously, when the sacrifice within was accepted, the thread would turn white as a sign that the sins had been forgiven. Well, the Talmud recounts that, for no clearly identifiable reason, the miracle ceased to take place about 40 years before the destruction of the Temple. In other words, after about 30 A.D. the thread never again was turned white! We know, as Christians, that that was precisely when the Temple sacrifices lost their efficacy — at the moment of the Crucifixion, about 30 A.D., when as a sign of the fact the curtain in the Temple was rent in two (Matthew 27:51). Thus to Christian eyes it is evident that the Talmud itself attests to the truth of Christianity. Jewish scholars have an alternative, not very convincing, explanation of why the miracle ceased to occur — that God had stopped forgiving the Jews their sins because too many of them had committed the unforgivable sin of following Jesus !


Looking around the net, I came across a few titles that apparently talk a lot about the Mass and Temple/synagogue worship:

How Christ Said the First Mass. It's available online, too, at archive.org.

Great High Priest: The Temple Roots of Christian Liturgy

Orthodox Worship: A Living Continuity With the Temple, the Synagogue and the Early Church - this one is likely more oriented toward Eastern Catholic liturgies

I haven't read any of these, so can't vouch for them. Just putting it out there.

Can FE members get free copy?

N.
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