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Why is mass always at silly hours? The times of mass seem to always be at times that just don't fit in with most people's lives in this day and age. Weekday masses are always at 9am or during working hours. What's the point? Only a few elderly and unemployed will go. Sundays the Mass is early in the morning in most places. Why, after working 30+ hours a week should people be deprived of an extra few hours of  sleep that they look forward to?

This got me thinking about what it is priests actually do throughout the day. I rarely see a priest out and about, and they're not in chapel all day. I emailed my local priest a few days ago and still haven't got a reply. Where is he? What's he doing?

No wonder the Church is half dead, there's nobody about. If I walks around to the local evangelical Church, there would be somebody there and some activity going on. Their services are at suitable times, and have prayer groups throughout the week, as well as operating a food bank and drop in centre. Why is the Catholic Church so insular and lazy? I'm sick of it. I want to be a part of a Christian community but I can find it nowhere in the Catholic Church 
yup.

we have mass at 9am and 5pm on weekdays so that only the moldy oldies can go.

we have scheduled confession only twice a year.

our homilies usually consist of hearing about where the priest ate lunch/washed his car or more often than not where hes going or has been on vacation.

once the vestments come off the priest is out the dooe and back at his house or whatever adventure hes on.

no cell phone so dont prepare to die if hes not performing mass.
Well...

Where should I start?

(05-20-2015, 08:39 AM)Old_Sarum Wrote: [ -> ]No wonder the Church is half dead, there's nobody about. If I walks around to the local evangelical Church, there would be somebody there and some activity going on. Their services are at suitable times, and have prayer groups throughout the week, as well as operating a food bank and drop in centre. Why is the Catholic Church so insular and lazy? I'm sick of it. I want to be a part of a Christian community but I can find it nowhere in the Catholic Church 

Yes, I agree that Protestant/Evangelical churches tend to have a plethora of services, groups, and things that make it "nice". I very often hear people comparing notes about the "perks" of a particular church over another when church-shopping (oddly, they never seem to pick a church based on what they believe, but on what stuff they offer like nurseries, bible studies, and a good worship band). When I commented once to someone that they should consider picking a church based on it's beliefs and not it's perks, they just looked at me and said, "It's easy for you, because you're Catholic!"

The priority of those churches is different. They need to attract people on a different level, or they die. They don't have the fullness of truth to keep people, so they have to find other ways. Contrast that to the Church.  I go to a Catholic Church because it is Catholic, and will go to a Catholic Church until I die because I know it's true. I continue to go even if things are bad, or there's a terrible priest, or a number of other factors.

Now, a lot of those things that make our Protestant friends so attractive are run by volunteers, or have paid staff that do it. Very often, "stuff" in the Catholic Church doesn't get done because no one does it. Should the priests be responsible for that? Maybe, to a certain degree. Their leadership often sets the tone for the parish. They are the de facto managers of the parishes, whether they want to be or not. But I've been around long enough, and involved in enough things, that I know that getting volunteers is like pulling teeth. Want a bible study? You need someone to run that. Want a prayer group? Someone has to organize that.

(05-20-2015, 08:39 AM)Old_Sarum Wrote: [ -> ]This got me thinking about what it is priests actually do throughout the day. I rarely see a priest out and about, and they're not in chapel all day. I emailed my local priest a few days ago and still haven't got a reply. Where is he? What's he doing?

That I can't help you with. I know our priest will sometimes take a few days to get back to them, but our parish also serves several outlying parishes, serves a number of personal care homes, visits the hospital and has several groups running during the day. Not to mention the office stuff that needs to be done. But Roman clerics often don't wear the collar out in public, and are difficult to "spot". We had one priest that always wore a cassock, and boy, he WAS visible out in public.

I once had a priest comment to me about this. He was a Catholic priest, but the son of a protestant minister. He stated that Protestant ministers are often more "available" to their congregants, because they are paid to do so. They usually don't have much going on outside of their respective church because they can be drummed out if they are perceived as not doing their job.

(05-20-2015, 08:39 AM)Old_Sarum Wrote: [ -> ]Why is mass always at silly hours? The times of mass seem to always be at times that just don't fit in with most people's lives in this day and age. Weekday masses are always at 9am or during working hours. What's the point? Only a few elderly and unemployed will go. Sundays the Mass is early in the morning in most places. Why, after working 30+ hours a week should people be deprived of an extra few hours of  sleep that they look forward to?

For Sunday, all I can say is "suck it up, buttercup". People will get up at ungodly hours to watch a football match (or in my husband's case, F1 racing), stay up too late watching a TV show or reading a book, or any number of things. At least there's Mass available. Have a nap.

Oftentimes, at least here, there are multiple Masses and/or multiple parishes that need Mass to be said by the same priest. I dare a Protestant/Evangelical minister to do the balancing act that most parish priests have to do these days.

As for weekday Masses, when would you propose a good time be? Has anyone asked for a different Mass time? We have some days at 9:30, but some at 7 p.m. and Fridays is 12:15. At one point, people who worked asked for one at 7:30 a.m. so they could attend before work.
(05-20-2015, 09:40 AM)PrairieMom Wrote: [ -> ]The priority of those churches is different.
I disagree. I think it's incredibly unfair to say that they do not believe in evangelization and saving souls. They aren't running a business, but a community of believers.

Quote:They don't have the fullness of truth to keep people, so they have to find other ways.
It's all way saying that a particular parish is somehow, in an abstract way, in possesion of the fullness of truth, but that doesn't actually mean anything. Yes, the parish may be a visible member of the universal Church which contains the fullness of truth, but what's the point of only sharing little tiny portions of that truth with a few old biddies? The Catholic Church has the fullness of Truth, but what good has that done us in the past 50 years? It hasn't kept people in the Church at all.

Quote:I go to a Catholic Church because it is Catholic, and will go to a Catholic Church until I die because I know it's true. I continue to go even if things are bad, or there's a terrible priest, or a number of other factors.

Why? Aren't you just enabling the bad priests? By supporting them and continuing to affirm their practices, you will only make them think what they are doing is ok.

Quote:For Sunday, all I can say is "suck it up, buttercup". People will get up at ungodly hours to watch a football match (or in my husband's case, F1 racing), stay up too late watching a TV show or reading a book, or any number of things. At least there's Mass available. Have a nap.

No, 'I won't suck it up'. If the Church can support sodomites and adulterers for 'pastoral reasons', then she can at least accomodate the vast majority of people who want to rest on the day of rest, and not threaten us with Hell for catching a few Zzz's. It's rude and inconsiderate to force so many people into Hell by depriving them of a simple pleasure: rest from a full week of work. It would be better if there was no mass offered at all. Why make it difficult for people? They want to make it easy for people in a state of sin to recieve communion, but they won't make it easy for normal people to just have a nice day? Nah  >:(

People need to stop making excuses for the lukewarm church. It's a joke. It will be dead completely in 10 years, at least in Europe. Then what about us believers who are left behind? Nah, we'll just stick to the same lukewarm, boring, soul crushing tedium that we've been doing for the past 50 years. It's the 'new springtime' after all.
(05-20-2015, 10:36 AM)Old_Sarum Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-20-2015, 09:40 AM)PrairieMom Wrote: [ -> ]The priority of those churches is different.
I disagree. I think it's incredibly unfair to say that they do not believe in evangelization and saving souls. They aren't running a business, but a community of believers.

Okay, I will grant you that I maybe didn't adequately express it. They take their roles as evangelizers very seriously, and frankly the Church could take a few pages from their book.

But let's not delude ourselves. I spent enough years in Evangelical churches in my youth (Pentecostal, mostly) to know that it is at least, partially, a business. There are bills to pay. Very often, it's a cult around a particular preacher that pops up around these types of churches.  I've seen what happens when they are dissatisfied with their preacher, or there's a change of command.

(05-20-2015, 10:36 AM)Old_Sarum Wrote: [ -> ]They don't have the fullness of truth to keep people, so they have to find other ways.
It's all way saying that a particular parish is somehow, in an abstract way, in possesion of the fullness of truth, but that doesn't actually mean anything. Yes, the parish may be a visible member of the universal Church which contains the fullness of truth, but what's the point of only sharing little tiny portions of that truth with a few old biddies? The Catholic Church has the fullness of Truth, but what good has that done us in the past 50 years? It hasn't kept people in the Church at all.  [/quote]

The past 50 years hasn't been a good example, as the "fullness of truth" has been obscured by truthiness. The events since the 1960's has been very challenging for everyone - including most mainline Protestant denominations that are also dying - so this is not something unique to the Church. I don't think the changes with VII, however, helped. There are cultural challenges abound.

However, the point I was trying to make is that the Church has truth on it's side. That, at least, is a starting point from which to (re)build.

(05-20-2015, 10:36 AM)Old_Sarum Wrote: [ -> ]
Quote:I go to a Catholic Church because it is Catholic, and will go to a Catholic Church until I die because I know it's true. I continue to go even if things are bad, or there's a terrible priest, or a number of other factors.
Why? Aren't you just enabling the bad priests? By supporting them and continuing to affirm their practices, you will only make them think what they are doing is ok.

I can understand why you're saying that, and you can certainly make a legitimate argument for that, but let's turn that around a bit.

I understand that the Church is bigger than a few bad priests.

I know that the guard is changing, and the new priests coming in are, on the most part, excellent and orthodox, at least in these parts. Most new, young priests are purposely doing things differently than their predecessors.

I know the parish isn't the priest, and the priest isn't the parish. The priests come and go, but the parishioners stay. The priest will often set the tone, but the parish has the ability to resist.

I don't take a "what can the parish do for me" attitude, but I tend to take matters into my own hands. I refuse to simply be a consumer, and I know it's not all about me.

We have this cultural obsession with "bad priests". Most priests, in my experience, are not bad, although they are not all to my "taste". That's another matter entirely. Our last priest, he was okay, but there were a few parishioners who LOVED him! One even raved about his homilies and remarked that he figured he would get tapped for bishop one day. I didn't think he was anything to write to about. So oftentimes our perception of what's a "bad priest" is simply our expectations.

Now, I understand you're in Europe and the condition of the Church is different there, and cultural expectation are a bit different there, so take from that what you will.

(05-20-2015, 10:36 AM)Old_Sarum Wrote: [ -> ]
Quote:For Sunday, all I can say is "suck it up, buttercup". People will get up at ungodly hours to watch a football match (or in my husband's case, F1 racing), stay up too late watching a TV show or reading a book, or any number of things. At least there's Mass available. Have a nap.

No, 'I won't suck it up'. If the Church can support sodomites and adulterers for 'pastoral reasons', then she can at least accomodate the vast majority of people who want to rest on the day of rest, and not threaten us with Hell for catching a few Zzz's. It's rude and inconsiderate to force so many people into Hell by depriving them of a simple pleasure: rest from a full week of work. It would be better if there was no mass offered at all. Why make it difficult for people? They want to make it easy for people in a state of sin to recieve communion, but they won't make it easy for normal people to just have a nice day? Nah  >:(

People need to stop making excuses for the lukewarm church. It's a joke. It will be dead completely in 10 years, at least in Europe. Then what about us believers who are left behind? Nah, we'll just stick to the same lukewarm, boring, soul crushing tedium that we've been doing for the past 50 years. It's the 'new springtime' after all.

You'll have to excuse my ignorance about where you live here, but aren't you in Europe? Can't you, like, throw a stone and hit the next town instead of having to drive 2 hours in a private vehicle to get to another city because public transport is non-existent? Surely, there's more than one Catholic Mass in your environs?

If you admire the Protestant way of doing things so much, do what they do and leave. Go to the next Church down the street.

I'm going to assume you don't have small children in your house. I could argue that children are not worthwhile because I want to sleep. I haven't slept through the night in almost 10 years. I was up at 4:30 this morning with teething baby after going to bed after 11 because it took that long to get everyone settled into bed and asleep. I'm sorry, but I'm not having much sympathy because you have to get up early to waste an hour of your life .... because from your attitude you sure sound like you feel like you're wasting your time.

I am sick and tired of people complaining that the Church should be this, and the Church should be that, but then expect the Church to magically become what they want it to be. Don't like the priests? Help form new ones by actively supporting vocations. Don't like Mass times? Find other people who feel the same and approach the priest with a proposal. Maybe he doesn't know it's a problem. Want a Bible study? Start one. Don't like your liturgy? Again, find like-minded people and come up with a solution.

The Church is ancient. It will change slowly, possibly not in your generation, but it. will. change. But only if someone is the agent of change. People need to stop making excuses for being the agent of change.

/off soapbox, end rant

Oh so I should leave the Catholic Church because I believe in it, yet the sodomites and social justice warriors get to stay and destroy it?


Nah, not having that.

I won't put up with these people who are intent on destroying my spiritual family. I won't sit back and say it's ok. You can do that, but if that's your opinion I don't see why you don't just leave and become a protestant. If you're so fine with it then you do so.


No I can't just travel to the next town,. because I am not some rich suburbanite who can afford a car or public transport. I live in one of the most deprived areas of the UK.

You can tell me to do it myself, and that is EXACTLY what I want. The problem is, I go to ANY catholic church and it is dead. There's nobody there. They're all asleep. So what am I supposed to do? Priests won't use their position to do anything aboput it, because they're too busy felating each other or attending pride marches.

I want answers as to why I am supposed to be in a church that is dead. What makes the Catholic Church the one true Church when the gates of Hell have prevailed and it is nothing. The Church is NOTHING. There's nothing to it. It doesn't DO anything.


Meanwhile, evangelicals do all the spiritual and corporeal works of mercy, spread the Gospel, grow in faith and love... alright, they're not perfect but they at least exit. The Catholic church does not exist, and that is the fault of people like you making excuses as to why it's ok that the Church is dead.

Sorry, no. Not gonna take that.
(05-20-2015, 11:41 AM)Old_Sarum Wrote: [ -> ]Oh so I should leave the Catholic Church because I believe in it, yet the sodomites and social justice warriors get to stay and destroy it?


Nah, not having that.

From what you have posted, it sounds like you're half way there anyway. I know the situation in Europe is dire, but you are unfairly painting everyone with one broad stroke.

(05-20-2015, 11:41 AM)Old_Sarum Wrote: [ -> ]I won't put up with these people who are intent on destroying my spiritual family. I won't sit back and say it's ok. You can do that, but if that's your opinion I don't see why you don't just leave and become a protestant. If you're so fine with it then you do so.

Did I say it was okay? Did I suggest you sit on your laurels and take it? I suggested that you take ownership of your problems and work towards a resolution. all the while understanding that the Church is not the same, culturally, spiritually or organizationally, like Evangelicals. You have already decided the situation is hopeless, and are insulted that I dare suggest that the grass is not always greener on the other side.

I've been a Protestant already in my lifetime, and I have chosen to come back to the Church, for better or for worse. Right now, I admit it's for worse. But I have hope. Or least, I hope I have hope.

But you have to keep in mind that a large reason why the Church is in the position it is - no one did anything. The vocal ones are the ones who destroyed the Church, and we allowed it. We continue to allow it by doing nothing.

(05-20-2015, 11:41 AM)Old_Sarum Wrote: [ -> ]No I can't just travel to the next town,. because I am not some rich suburbanite who can afford a car or public transport. I live in one of the most deprived areas of the UK.

Your economic situation limits your options, which you obviously know. I am not rich, and I know I am blessed to afford the things we have. But frankly, I live in the middle of buttkissnowhere. I envy those who live in the compactness of inner cities at times.

I don't know your situation geographically, so I am unable to further comment or make additional suggestions. You can choose to make this is a case of God deciding that you need to bloom where planted, but you need to choose that for yourself.

 
(05-20-2015, 11:41 AM)Old_Sarum Wrote: [ -> ]You can tell me to do it myself, and that is EXACTLY what I want. The problem is, I go to ANY catholic church and it is dead. There's nobody there. They're all asleep. So what am I supposed to do? Priests won't use their position to do anything aboput it, because they're too busy felating each other or attending pride marches.

I want answers as to why I am supposed to be in a church that is dead. What makes the Catholic Church the one true Church when the gates of Hell have prevailed and it is nothing. The Church is NOTHING. There's nothing to it. It doesn't DO anything.

I never suggested it won't be easy. I tend to doubt that anything worthwhile is easy, or convenient, or without struggle. You may not see the change in your lifetime, but you talk of your spiritual family. I know I do just about anything for my family-family. If not for yourself, what about waking those around you up?

If there is a need for a volunteer, are you volunteering?

Are you talking to members seeing what the needs and wants are? Have you actually approached a priest? A bishop? Are there children in your parish? Are you trying to figure out how to support them, seeing how that's where the next generation of vocations will come from? Have you started a St. Vincent de Paul group in your parish? Are you running a Bible study?

"The Church is NOTHING. There's nothing to it. It doesn't DO anything".... Baby, you ARE the Church. Lead, and you'd be surprised who follows.

(05-20-2015, 11:41 AM)Old_Sarum Wrote: [ -> ]Meanwhile, evangelicals do all the spiritual and corporeal works of mercy, spread the Gospel, grow in faith and love... alright, they're not perfect but they at least exit. The Catholic church does not exist, and that is the fault of people like you making excuses as to why it's ok that the Church is dead.

Sorry, no. Not gonna take that.

I am not making excuses, in fact I'm suggesting the opposite. My husband and I decided years ago that we need to make our community - whether it be our Church community or our community at large - what we need it to be. No one else will do it for us. We do it now primarily for our children, but we each adopted that philosophy before we even met, married and had children. We both worked full time, attended church, and volunteered in our communities. Now, my husband works 40+ hours a week, plus commuting time. I am blessed enough to be home with our children, but we homeschool so my days are generally very full. We have a special-needs child. We perpetually have babies and toddlers. Yet we both sit on boards (I, in fact, sit on boards for 2 different organizations, and sit on 2 different boards for one of those), volunteer at our parish, involved with the Knights, involved with community events, and occasionally we get to sleep! Is it easy? No. Frustrating? You bet. It sometimes take years to see the fruition of our ideas, suggestions, and groundwork.

Now, I am done with this conversation. Clearly, I don't know what you're looking for. But I have to say, you remind me of a friend I had years ago in my hometown. We both went to Evangelical churches, although different ones. She had a hard life, growing up in the foster system, having a baby at 19 as a single parent, etc. But her attitude was very much of waiting for God to deliver her from her troubles. And her troubles never seemed to end.

Sometimes God can only deliver us if we raise our hand and say, "Here Lord, I am here. Send me."
I'm not sure you're grasping just how non-existent the Church is here, or how anti-Catholic the few old biddies are. It's not a case of not being involved, just that there's nothing to be involved in. There is no Church here. Oh, there's places that call themselves Catholic, but they are less Christian than even the local Synagogue or Mosque. I'm not sitting on my arse waiting for God to deliver me a Church. I live in a pagan country, with maybe a few hundred Catholics in it.

I really resent your condescending, dismissive attitude. I want answers, not criticisms from you.
And no, I haven't left the Catholic Church, the Catholic Church has left me and all the other faithful in this country. So don't make out like I'm rejecting the Church, thank you.
Have you checked out a SSPX chapel? Here the weekday morning masses are at 7:30 AM, so that people can go before work. Sundays are a 9:00 AM, and there's a Sunday evening mass one a month. Evening masses are offered during the week at various times. The priest at our chapel is very engaged to the point that I started to wonder what the diocesan priests do all day.  By comparison to the SSPX priest, they appear to be twiddling their thumbs (or worse)! And hey, if you have to travel far or wake up earlier, at least you know that the mass and congregation are decent. Chances are someone would even carpool with you, or help in some other way that you could get there. At least in my experience, the priest and the people have been extremely helpful and caring. It is motivating and makes you want to go, as it should be.

I really get what you are saying. We are out their doing our jobs and working hard the whole week, the priest, who has dedicated himself as pastor to the faithful, should do his! The situation in Europe really is abominable, I second what you've said.
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