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Very interesting. With all that is going on here in the US of A, it would seem we are becoming more like Old Soviet Russia and they, Modern Russia, more like the Old Christian America was.  sad

Good read this newsletter I just received:

Keyboard Warrior




Tribulation Times


READ THE BIBLE IN ONE YEAR: http://oneyearbibleonline.com/may-oyb/?ver...&startmmdd=0101
May 29, 2015 

(1Th 5:19-21) Extinguish not the spirit. Despise not prophecies. But prove all things: hold fast that which is good.

REVIEW: Has Russia Been Consecrated to the Immaculate Heart of Mary? by Rev. J.L. Iannuzzi, STD, Ph.D. (original PDF version link: http://www.ltdw.org/)

In recent years the faithful have asked me to address the question of whether or not the consecration of Russia requested by Mary has been done. In response, I begin by recalling the 3rd apparition of Our Lady of Fatima on July 13, 1917, in which Mary showed the three shepherd children the vision of hell and revealed:

“You have seen Hell where the souls of poor sinners go. To save them, God wishes to establish in the world devotion to My Immaculate Heart. If what I say to you is done, many souls will be saved and there will be peace. The war is going to end; if people do not cease offending God, a worse one will break out during the pontificate of Pius XI. When you see a night illumined by an unknown light, know that this is the great sign given you by God that He is about to punish the world for its crimes, by means of war, famine, and persecutions of the Church and of the Holy Father.

To prevent this, I shall come to ask for the consecration of Russia to my Immaculate Heart, and the Communion of reparation on the First Saturdays. If my requests are heeded, Russia will be converted, and there will be peace; if not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred; the Holy Father will have much to suffer; various nations will be annihilated. In the end, my Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to me, and she shall be converted, and a period of peace will be granted to the world”.

In the last apparition of Fatima of June 13, 1929, Lucia relates:

“Our Lady then said to me: ‘The moment has come in which God asks the Holy Father, in union with all the Bishops of the world, to make the consecration of Russia to My Immaculate Heart, promising to save it by this means. There are so many souls whom the Justice of God condemns for sins committed against Me, that I have come to ask reparation: sacrifice yourself for this intention and pray.’”

Let us now review the papal consecrations of Russia and of the world to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.

In March 1937 and in 1938 respectively Bishop De Silva Leiria and the Portuguese episcopate asks Pope Pius XI for the Consecration of the World to the Immaculate Heart. No consecration is made.

In December 1940 Sr. Lucia writes a letter to Pope Pius XII affirming that Our Lord himself requests the Pope to “consecrate the world to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, with a special mention for Russia, and order that all the Bishops of the world do the same in union with Your Holiness.”

1) On October 31, 1942 Pope Pius XII consecrates the world to the Immaculate Heart.

2) On July 7, 1952 Pope Pius XII consecrates the Russian people to the Immaculate Heart through his apostolic letter Sacro Vergente Anno, in which he affirms: “Just as a few years ago We consecrated the entire human race to the Immaculate Heart of the Virgin Mary, Mother of God, so today We consecrate and in a most special manner We entrust all the peoples of Russia to this Immaculate Heart.”

3) On November 21, 1964 Pope Paul VI renews, in the presence of the Fathers of the Vatican Council but without their participation, the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart.

4) On May 13, 1982 Pope John Paul II invites the bishops of the world to join him in consecrating the world and with it Russia to the Immaculate Heart. Many do not receive the invitation in time for the Pope's trip to Fatima, where he accomplishes the consecration,but Sr. Lucia later says it did not fulfill the conditions.

5) October 1983 Pope John Paul II, at the Synod of Bishops, renews the 1982 Consecration.

6) On March 25, 1984 Pope John Paul II, “united with all the pastors of the Church in a particular bond whereby we constitute a body and a college,”consecrates “the whole world, especially the peoples for which by reason of their situation you have particular love and solicitude.” Both the Pope and Sr. Lucia initially seemed uncertain that the consecration has been fulfilled, but shortly thereafter Sr. Lucia tells the papal nuncio to Portugal that the Consecration is fulfilled.

In light of the preceding, Sr. Lucia would pen two monumental letters with her own hand in answer to the question pertaining to the validity of the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. In two handwritten letters of August 29, 1989 and of July 3, 1990 Sr. Lucia affirms that the Russian consecration requested by Our Lady “was made” (see two letters reported below).

Let us now review from a practical angle the validity of the consecration of Russia to Mary’s Immaculate Heart. Let us recall on June 13, 1929 that Mary stated, “The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to her and Russia will be converted. Some have questioned if Mary’s deliberate use of the future tense here qualifies as prophecy of the 1984 consecration that Lucia said “was made as Our Lady requested”. While past Pontiffs had consecrated “the people of Russia” and “the world” to Mary, others have contested that consecrating “the people of Russia without the episcopal college” and “the world with the episcopal college” does not count for consecrating “specifically Russia in union with the episcopal college”. To get beyond this impasse, a brief review of the importance of methodology is in order.

In all accredited disciplines there is no reliability of a given source without a method of research. Methodology distinguishes primary from secondary sources with the aim of ensuring reliability of a given source. A primary source (e.g., Lucia, Francisco and Jacinta re. the Fatima messages) provides direct or firsthand recount of an event or person. On the other hand, a secondary source describes, discusses, interprets, comments upon and analyzes the primary source (e.g., all those who comment on the Fatima message). This is a pivotal distinction as it exposes to the reader the disparity of authority enjoyed by a primary and secondary source – the first-hand witness is the primary source who enjoys a greater authority re. the event witnessed than the secondary source.

In the case of the Fatima message Lucia remains the primary source. Human reason would have one first look to the primary source for the answer to the question on whether or not Russia was consecrated according to Our Lady request. Here is Lucia’s response contained in her hand-written letters of August 29, 1989 and July 3, 1990:

Letters of Sr. Lucia Santos, OCD on the Consecration

Letter 1: To Sr. Mary of Bethlehem

J.+ M. Pax Christi

Dear Sister Mary of Bethlehem:

Received your letter and, although I have very little time at my disposal I will answer your question which is: Is the Consecration of the world, according to the request of Our Lady, made? On Oct. 31, 1942, His Holiness Pius XII made the Consecration. I was asked if it was made as Our Lady requested. I answered "NO," because it was not made in union with all the bishops of the world. Later, on May 13, 1967, His Holiness Paul VI made the Consecration. I was asked if it was made as Our Lady requested. I responded "NO," for the same reason, it was not made in union with all the bishops of the world. On May 13, 1982, His Holiness John Paul II made the Consecration. I was asked if it was made. I responded "NO." It was not made in union with all the bishops of the world.

Then this same Supreme Pontiff, John Paul II wrote to all the bishops of the world asking them to unite with him. He sent for the statute of Our Lady of Fátima -- the one from the little Chapel to be taken to Rome and on March 25, 1984 - publicly - with the bishops who wanted to unite with His Holiness, made the Consecration as Our Lady requested. They then asked me if it was made as Our Lady requested, and I said, "YES." Now it was made.

Why this urgency of God that this Consecration should be made in union with all the bishops of the world? Because this Consecration is a call for unity of all Christians - The Mystical Body of Christ - whose head is the Pope, the one, true representative of Christ on earth to whom the Lord confided the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and on this union depends the faith in the world and the charity which is the bond that must unite all of us in Christ, as that which He wants, and as He asked the Father: "As You, O Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You have sent Me. . . I in them, and You in Me; that they be made perfect in one, and the world may know that You have sent Me and have loved them as You have loved Me" (John 17:21-23).

As we see of the union depends the faith and the charity that must be the bond of our union in Christ, whose true representative on earth is the Pope.

A hug to your mother and my greetings to the rest of the family in union with prayers. Coimbra, August 29,1989

Sr. Lucia

J.+ M. Pax Christi

Rev . do Sr. P. Robert J. Fox,

Recebi a sua carta e venho responder á sua pergunta: "Se a Consagração feita por João Paulo II, em 25 de Março de 1984, em união com todos os Bispos do mundo, cumpriu as codições para a coversão da Russia, segundo o pedido de Nossa Senhora em Tuy a 13 de Junho de 1929."? Sim, cumpriu, e desde aí, eu tenho dito que está feita.

E digo que não é nenhuma outra pessoa que responde por mim, sou eu quem recebe a correspondência, abre as cartas e responde.

Em união de orações

Coimbra, 3-VII-l99O Irmã Lúcia

(signature)

TRANSLATION:

J.+ M. The Peace of Christ

Rev. Father Robert J. Fox,

I come to answer your question, "If the consecration made by Pope John Paul II on March 25, 1984 in union with all the bishops of the world, accomplished the conditions for the consecration of Russia according to the request of Our Lady in Tuy on June 13 of 1929?" Yes, it was accomplished, and since then I have said that it was made.

And I say that no other person responds for me, it is I who receive and open all letters and respond to them.

Coimbra, July 3, 1990

Sister Lucia

From a more practical angle, let us now examine the “fruits” of the March 25, 1984 consecration that Lucia affirmed was “made as Our Lady’s requested” and “was accomplished” to see if they are good fruits, for Jesus himself revealed, “Every good tree bears good fruit, and a rotten tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a rotten tree bear good fruit… So by their fruits you will know them” (Mt. 7.17-21).

Subsequent to the March 25, 1984 consecration the following events occurred:

  *  On May 13, 1984 one of the largest crowds in Fatima history gathers at the shrine to pray the Rosary for peace.
  *  On May 13, 1984 an explosion at the Soviets’ Severomorsk Naval Base destroys two-thirds of all the missiles stockpiled for the Soviets’ Northern Fleet. The blast also destroys workshops needed to maintain the missiles as well as hundreds of scientists and technicians. Western military experts called it the worst naval disaster the Soviet Navy has suffered since WWII.
  *  In December 1984 the Soviet Defense Minister, mastermind of the invasion plans for Western Europe, suddenly and mysteriously dies.
  *  On March 10, 1985 the Soviet Union leader and communist party member Chairman Konstantin Chernenko dies.
  *  On March 11, 1985 the Soviet Chairman Mikhail Gorbachev is elected.
  *  On April 26, 1986 the Chernobyl nuclear reactor accident occurs that potentially staves off a nuclear strike during the cold war era.
  *  On April 26, 1987 the 1st Anniversary of Chernobyl, the Virgin Mary is reported to have appeared to a 12-year old girl Maria Kizyn and later to thousands of adults at the Chapel of the Blessed Trinity in a small Ukrainian village of Hrushiv 530 kilometers southwest of the Chernobyl nuclear disaster. The August 1987 article in Literaturnaya Gazeta affirmed that more than 100,000 people converged on the village in the first month and, despite the Soviet authorities having locked up the Chapel where the vision occurred, the paper revealed that 40,000 to 45,000 faithful visit the site daily.
  * On May 12, 1988 an explosion wrecked the only factory that made the rocket motors for the Soviets’ deadly SS 24 long-range missiles, which carry ten nuclear bombs each.
  * On August 29, 1989 concerning the consecration of Russia Sr. Luica writes, “They then asked me if it was made as Our Lady requested, and I said, ‘YES.’ Now it was made”.
  * On November 9, 1989 the Fall of the Berlin Wall occurs, and Christian freedom and public worship is permitted throughout all of Eastern Europe for the first time since the 1917 Bolshevik Revolution.
  * Nov.-Dec. 1989 Peaceful revolutions in Czechoslovakia, Romania, Bulgaria and Albania
  * 1990 East and West Germany are unified.
  * On July 3, 1990 Sr. Lucia affirms in correspondence that the consecration "has been accomplished".
  * On December 25, 1991 there occurs the dissolution of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

Given the foregoing, and in light of my many travels to all continents of the globe that include Russia and Ukraine (where preached there on several occasions), I invite you to reflect on the spiritual and moral status quo of the Western and Eastern Church and make up your mind on whether or not Russia has been converted or not.

In the Western world:

- In Western Europe at least 28 cathedrals were sold (and are still being sold) to become casinos, hotels, cafeterias, mountain for alpinists.
- The churches are getting emptier by the year and many Christians have apostatized. Many priests too are failing Jesus, and monasteries and convents are emptying.
- Governments are extinguishing the little light left of Christianity in public schools and in public places, and prohibit the catechism in schools under the pretext that here are other religions in the classroom which they will offend.
- The European Union allows gay marriages even in Churches, and much more immorality has spread in the Western world losing all the human and spiritual values previous generations had labored to establish.

However in Russia:

- In Russia hundreds of new Churches are being built out of necessity, and the ones now in use are more than full with believers.
- The Russian Churches are filled with the faithful to the brim, and the monasteries and convents are packed with new novices.
- The Government in Russia does not deny Christ, but speaks openly and encourages schools to keep their Christianity, and teach pupils their catechism.
- The Government together with the Church declared openly that they will not be part of the European Union, because the EU has lost its moral values and their Christianity as they had in the past under the Soviet Union; they left their faith and denied Christ. This time they declared “no one will tear us away from our faith and we will defend our faith until death.”
- Russia declared that gays are not welcomed and not allowed to make processions, let alone gay marriages. Russia declared that any foreigner who wants to live in Russia will be asked: 1) To learn Russian, 2) to become Christian and follow their traditions. If not, they are not welcomed (Note bene: While Russia is predominantly Orthodox Christian – they have all 7 Sacraments, which Rome acknowledges as valid – they allow other Christians to openly express and practice their faith (there are in Moscow several Catholic and Anglican Churches).

Who of the two needs to be converted?
NO!!!!
No

My sister lives in Russia and I'm going there in a few months to visit. Never heard anything about them asking foreigners to be a Christian, this must just be a move to control the Muslim immigrants. Their immigration laws are ridiculous and injurious to the nation's overall well-being. The only way for a married foreigner to get a residence permit is if their spouse owns property, it's absurd. But something tells me that if a gay man greases enough palms to get his lover in, it would work. More than likely the Russian anti-gay culture stems from the insecurity that the men have about their masculinity. Russians think a man is someone who rules with an iron fist, and that's the only why they know how to accept authority. Seems a bit at odds with the meekness of Christ... I don't think that this homophobia comes from a great sense of justice. On the other hand, Russia has the best maternity rights in the world, and a woman's retirement age is 10 years earlier than men, precisely so that they can help out with grandchildren. People more than likely want it like that because they know anything the State would provide them with would be a joke. Since people don't take the State very seriously, it's no wonder that they aren't great champions of 'gay rights'. They don't have the entitled attitude to 'rights' like the West does. In this sense, the State has not replaced the Church.

Apparently the average Orthodox Russian has bitterly lost hope in the world and has an extremely mystical faith. Meaning they literally don't have any trust in any kind of law whatsoever. When in danger, they rely only on their friends and family, and God, for those who believe. At least in St. Petersburg, where my sister is, atheism is pretty prevalent. But there is something compelling about the 'Russian soul' and the suffering and depth, makes me think if Christians were a chosen people, it'd be the Russians!

They always remind Westerns: We are the only white people that you fear.

No!  Not to Xandratax, but to the original question.  I wonder how many of the Orthodox clergy are atheists or Russian spies per that book AA-1047?
Just for the record: Personally, I am on the fence about this question of whether or not Russia has been 'officially' consecrated to Our Lady. There are good arguments on both sides of the issue. But when one looks at the actions of Russia, currently, one gets the impression that the 'conversion' is incomplete or wasn't so sustainable or possibly the 'period of peace' is at an end. Perhaps the 'conversions' were incorrectly done, incompletely done and hence, the 'errors' may have been mitigated, but still and none the less,  they continued.

Because of these observations, I thought a good discussion hereabouts could be informative, for me and others and this forum is not void of opinionated and knowledgeable people.

Tip o' the hat
Ok, I'm also leaning towards 'No.' But WHY? Why hasn't the Church done what Our Lady asked? Does this consecration require an actual return of the Orthodox Russians to Catholicism? It's all very confusing.
(05-29-2015, 08:53 AM)xandratax Wrote: [ -> ]Ok, I'm also leaning towards 'No.' But WHY? Why hasn't the Church done what Our Lady asked? Does this consecration require an actual return of the Orthodox Russians to Catholicism? It's all very confusing.

Indeed!

And it only, for me, reinforces my belief, that the 'Tribulation/Chastisement' period is upon us.
Everything is subservient to ecumenism.  That's why the Church was at such great heights in the late fifties (it wasn't an issue then) and why we're in the gutters now.  The Church is absolutely paralyzed because they have to ask themselves; "Does this injure ecumenism" before they act on anything.  Has Russia been consecrated to the Immaculate Heart of Mary?  Of course not, it's not ecumenical.
Why was the traditional Mass nearly wiped off the face of the earth?  It's not ecumenical. 
Why doesn't the Church issue anathemas anymore?  It's not ecumenical
(05-29-2015, 11:28 AM)Josey Wales Wrote: [ -> ]Everything is subservient to ecumenism.  That's why the Church was at such great heights in the late fifties (it wasn't an issue then) and why we're in the gutters now.  The Church is absolutely paralyzed because they have to ask themselves; "Does this injure ecumenism" before they act on anything.  Has Russia been consecrated to the Immaculate Heart of Mary?  Of course not, it's not ecumenical.
Why was the traditional Mass nearly wiped off the face of the earth?  It's not ecumenical. 
Why doesn't the Church issue anathemas anymore?  It's not ecumenical

I agree, although there was plenty of time to do so from 1917 to 1962. The Church was fearful of the response of the Soviets. Funny because they feared a worldly power more than God and His Mother.

I lean towards no on this subject as well. There's too much ambiguity. If people need to ask whether it was really done or not, then I'll lean towards being skeptical... Especially with how shady the post conciliar Church can be.
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