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I have been wondering....I read different opinions on where the souls of aborted babies go and realize that no one really knows for sure.  Abortion is in the forefront every day now.  I was thinking that a woman who aborts during her lifetime and does not receive absolution must surely be consigned to Hell.  That's just reasoning on my part from Church teaching about sin, but it certainly sounds grave.  I have never heard any discussion on this topic and thought perhaps it bears discussion for the sake of saving souls.  What about women who are not Catholic in these days of ecumenism, who would never know the Sacrament of Confession?  The matter of the souls of the women should be one of the primary concerns  about abortion, I think.  Anyway, thoughts on this?
It's a transgression of natural law which is written on the hearts of all men.  It's terribly grave to go to Hell, yes, but on face value we're talking about a woman who chooses to have murdered her own baby.  At the same time, people may be ignorant of the severity of immorality of acts, and may also act under duress or pressure.  These can be mitigating factors.  It is up to the mercy of God to determine her soul's condition in light of these factors.

As for the babies themselves, you may be interested in reading two articles written by Msgr. John McCarthy of the Oblates of Wisdom on "Whether Aborted Children Should Be Claimed as Members of the Church":  http://rtforum.org/lt/lt65.html http://rtforum.org/lt/lt71.html
(08-06-2015, 12:39 PM)Steven Wrote: [ -> ]As for the babies themselves, you may be interested in reading two articles written by Msgr. John McCarthy of the Oblates of Wisdom on "Whether Aborted Children Should Be Claimed as Members of the Church":  http://rtforum.org/lt/lt65.html http://rtforum.org/lt/lt71.html

Unfortunately, Traditionally, there are only two possibilities, hell and limbus puerorum . I personally believe in limbo, probably because a) I believe in a merciful God, and b) I lost a brother to a still birth.
(08-06-2015, 02:15 PM)jovan66102 Wrote: [ -> ]
(08-06-2015, 12:39 PM)Steven Wrote: [ -> ]As for the babies themselves, you may be interested in reading two articles written by Msgr. John McCarthy of the Oblates of Wisdom on "Whether Aborted Children Should Be Claimed as Members of the Church":  http://rtforum.org/lt/lt65.html http://rtforum.org/lt/lt71.html

Unfortunately, Traditionally, there are only two possibilities, hell and limbus puerorum . I personally believe in limbo, probably because a) I believe in a merciful God, and b) I lost a brother to a still birth.

I heard a sermon by a FSSP priest a few weeks back in which he said that he believed in Limbo.  His opinion (he was very careful to stress that) was that unbaptised children would remain in Limbo until the Final Judgment and that Christ would open the gates of Heaven to them at that point much like the Patriarchs in the Limbo of the Fathers after the Resurrection.
(08-06-2015, 02:15 PM)jovan66102 Wrote: [ -> ]Unfortunately, Traditionally, there are only two possibilities, hell and limbus puerorum . I personally believe in limbo, probably because a) I believe in a merciful God, and b) I lost a brother to a still birth.

Those are the only two possibilities if the child dies in original sin, but dying in original sin is not the only possibility.  In reply to the objection that the sin of Adam reaches farther than the grace of Christ, since original sin can reach into the womb but baptism can't, St. Thomas replied:

"Children while in the mother's womb have not yet come forth into the world to live among other men. Consequently they cannot be subject to the action of man, so as to receive the sacrament, at the hands of man, unto salvation. They can, however, be subject to the action of God, in Whose sight they live, so as, by a kind of privilege, to receive the grace of sanctification; as was the case with those who were sanctified in the womb."
http://www.newadvent.org/summa/4068.htm#article11


(08-06-2015, 03:04 PM)dcmaccabees Wrote: [ -> ]I heard a sermon by a FSSP priest a few weeks back in which he said that he believed in Limbo.  His opinion (he was very careful to stress that) was that unbaptised children would remain in Limbo until the Final Judgment and that Christ would open the gates of Heaven to them at that point much like the Patriarchs in the Limbo of the Fathers after the Resurrection.

I don't think that is true.  The Limbo of the Fathers--Abraham's bosom--was something different.  The limbo of infants is on the other side of chasm from Abraham's bosom.  It is not a special third place, but a species of damnation without the suffering and pain due to actual sins (since those who die in original sin only have not committed actual sins)--it is literally the outskirts of Hell.  I believe it is a dogma of the faith that Hell is permanent. 

 
(08-06-2015, 03:14 PM)SaintSebastian Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think that is true.  The Limbo of the Fathers--Abraham's bosom--was something different.  The limbo of infants is on the other side of chasm from Abraham's bosom.  It is not a special third place, but a species of damnation without the suffering and pain due to actual sins (since those who die in original sin only have not committed actual sins)--it is literally the outskirts of Hell.  I believe it is a dogma of the faith that Hell is permanent. 

 

Father's sermon was on the four last things.  He stated that Purgatory wasn't permanent and then mentioned Limbo as also not being permanent.  He said (paraphrasing) that although God instituted Baptism as being the means for the Church to remove original sin, He wasn't bound by that.
(08-06-2015, 02:15 PM)jovan66102 Wrote: [ -> ]
(08-06-2015, 12:39 PM)Steven Wrote: [ -> ]As for the babies themselves, you may be interested in reading two articles written by Msgr. John McCarthy of the Oblates of Wisdom on "Whether Aborted Children Should Be Claimed as Members of the Church":  http://rtforum.org/lt/lt65.html http://rtforum.org/lt/lt71.html

Unfortunately, Traditionally, there are only two possibilities, hell and limbus puerorum . I personally believe in limbo, probably because a) I believe in a merciful God, and b) I lost a brother to a still birth.
That was a good link.  Still, my intention on the thread was to discuss salvation and absolution for women who have had abortions and what their fate will be.
(08-06-2015, 03:07 PM)SaintSebastian Wrote: [ -> ]
(08-06-2015, 02:15 PM)jovan66102 Wrote: [ -> ]Unfortunately, Traditionally, there are only two possibilities, hell and limbus puerorum . I personally believe in limbo, probably because a) I believe in a merciful God, and b) I lost a brother to a still birth.

Those are the only two possibilities if the child dies in original sin, but dying in original sin is not the only possibility.  In reply to the objection that the sin of Adam reaches farther than the grace of Christ, since original sin can reach into the womb but baptism can't, St. Thomas replied:

"Children while in the mother's womb have not yet come forth into the world to live among other men. Consequently they cannot be subject to the action of man, so as to receive the sacrament, at the hands of man, unto salvation. They can, however, be subject to the action of God, in Whose sight they live, so as, by a kind of privilege, to receive the grace of sanctification; as was the case with those who were sanctified in the womb."
http://www.newadvent.org/summa/4068.htm#article11
I agree with St. Thomas.
It really depends, doesn't it? If those mitigating factors Steven mentioned are at play, if the woman repents, etc.
Its not our place to say a person is going to hell or not, but the situation doesn't look very promising for the modern woman who has chain sex and at the inconvenience of a pregnancy chooses to kill the baby.
Nor for the abortion doctors. Just reading about the stuff they do (I can't watch the videos) it literally makes me sick. What they do is truly diabolical.
I certainly wouldn't want to be in their places.
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