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(10-10-2015, 01:40 PM)formerbuddhist Wrote: [ -> ]Let's be honest, things have been pretty bad and most of us haven't left and probably never will. The only thing that might change over the years is how we manage the cognitive dissonance inherent in modern Catholic life in the average parish. Some of us might go Sede for awhile, become militant SSPX adherents, Eastern Rite enthusiasts or maybe like myself, occasional lone wolf home aloners, but ultimately most of us will never leave.

This sounds a bit... naive to me. Apostasy is preceded by sin. When you're very deep into mortal sin and your practice of the Faith (daily praying, rosary, Confession, etc.) is instable and fragile, you can see the abyss of apostasy approaching.
(10-10-2015, 01:40 PM)formerbuddhist Wrote: [ -> ]Things have been pretty bad throughout the churches history, but especially in the last 100 years or so. If the antics of some of the Renassissance Popes or the litanies of embarassing and contradictory things said and done against our patrimony by Paul VI through Francis haven't convinced you to cross that line yet I'm not sure anything will.

Let's be honest, things have been pretty bad and most of us haven't left and probably never will. The only thing that might change over the years is how we manage the cognitive dissonance inherent in modern Catholic life in the average parish. Some of us might go Sede for awhile, become militant SSPX adherents, Eastern Rite enthusiasts or maybe like myself, occasional lone wolf home aloners, but ultimately most of us will never leave.

I've left and returned--a couple of times already!  And am at a point again where, after quite a spell of regular attendance, can no longer bring myself to drag my sorry old *ss to the local N.O. parish.  Which leaves me in a position very similar to yours, as a home-aloner, at least for now.  I'm even considering leaving...again :O, back to Orthodoxy.  But, like most things, it ain't so simple and definitely not easy.  So I'll just avoid all corporate manifestations of Church for a while (which could be a little as another week or as long as, well...who knows?), pray at home, and see what happens.
(10-10-2015, 02:30 PM)Catlick Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-10-2015, 01:40 PM)formerbuddhist Wrote: [ -> ]Let's be honest, things have been pretty bad and most of us haven't left and probably never will. The only thing that might change over the years is how we manage the cognitive dissonance inherent in modern Catholic life in the average parish. Some of us might go Sede for awhile, become militant SSPX adherents, Eastern Rite enthusiasts or maybe like myself, occasional lone wolf home aloners, but ultimately most of us will never leave.

This sounds a bit... naive to me. Apostasy is preceded by sin. When you're very deep into mortal sin and your practice of the Faith (daily praying, rosary, Confession, etc.) is instable and fragile, you can see the abyss of apostasy approaching.

Ha!  Even when I've managed to, by God's grace, avoid mortal sin altogether, for long-ish periods of time; even when the practice of my Faith has been "strong" (I guess that's pretty relative, though); my Faith and the practice of it have been unstable and fragile.  ???
(10-10-2015, 02:37 PM)J Michael Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-10-2015, 02:30 PM)Catlick Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-10-2015, 01:40 PM)formerbuddhist Wrote: [ -> ]Let's be honest, things have been pretty bad and most of us haven't left and probably never will. The only thing that might change over the years is how we manage the cognitive dissonance inherent in modern Catholic life in the average parish. Some of us might go Sede for awhile, become militant SSPX adherents, Eastern Rite enthusiasts or maybe like myself, occasional lone wolf home aloners, but ultimately most of us will never leave.

This sounds a bit... naive to me. Apostasy is preceded by sin. When you're very deep into mortal sin and your practice of the Faith (daily praying, rosary, Confession, etc.) is instable and fragile, you can see the abyss of apostasy approaching.

Ha!  Even when I've managed to, by God's grace, avoid mortal sin altogether, for long-ish periods of time; even when the practice of my Faith has been "strong" (I guess that's pretty relative, though); my Faith and the practice of it have been unstable and fragile.  ???

You're still hanging on though, and trying to be faithful to your prayers. What I meant about most of us not leaving is that, in the larger scheme of things many of us will have a love hate relationship with Rome, and many of us even if we leave for Orthodoxy or whatever will probably end up back somehow, someway.

For me, as I've said before, the daily prayers at home according to the rhythm of the hours and the liturgical year, along with the Jesus Prayer have been something I've stuck with no matter what, no matter how sinful I've been or how often I've been to Mass. There's no chance of me falling into apostasy which would mean basically a rejection of Jesus Christ Himself.

Honest if if weren't for my discovering the Divine Office and the Jesus Prayer I'd have never have stuck it out.

As for you J. Michael, you have my prayers no matter what you decide to do.  :)
Jesus Christ is inseparable from His Church.  Reject the Church, reject Our Lord.

Problems in the Church are nothing new and not an excuse to absent ourselves. Without problems in the Church, most of the New Testament would not have been written. ("Foolish Galatians!")

Always beware of the temptation to "dissolve Christ."  Rejecting the Church is one way to dissolve Him.  "And every spirit that dissolveth Jesus, is not of God."  1 John 4:3.
(10-10-2015, 04:13 PM)Clare Brigid Wrote: [ -> ]Jesus Christ is inseparable from His Church.  Reject the Church, reject Our Lord.

Problems in the Church are nothing new and not an excuse to absent ourselves. Without problems in the Church, most of the New Testament would not have been written. ("Foolish Galatians!")

Always beware of the temptation to "dissolve Christ."  Rejecting the Church is one way to dissolve Him.  "And every spirit that dissolveth Jesus, is not of God."  1 John 4:3.

Wise words, indeed, Clare.  The question is, as it frequently is, just where is the Church?  That's more of a rhetorical question, but if you feel like answering.... :)
Down the street and around the corner. 
(10-10-2015, 06:26 PM)Clare Brigid Wrote: [ -> ]Down the street and around the corner.

If only... :)
(10-10-2015, 06:26 PM)Clare Brigid Wrote: [ -> ]Down the street and around the corner.

Now, the crucial thing is: does it have a roundish top or pointy?  :LOL:
Like J Michael rhetorically asked, just where is the Church? That's something many of us ask over and over again throughout the years, or if not this we might legitimately ask just how to best deal with the crisis.

I might add, where does conscience fit into all this? There are some who,after looking at things and praying long and hard about them cannot remain in communion with Pope Francis or attend the new Mass. Plenty of people become sedevacantist or attend SSPX chapels full time because they have looked around and tried to do the best they could for themselves considering the evidence and their own sense of things.

Most of these folks have no desire to " dissolve the Church". They are sincerely trying to make sense of just where the Church is and just how to best deal with the decomposition of Christianity that has been going on for a long time.

What I was getting at is that many of us,without any desire to sunder or dissolve the Church,will find ourselves dealing with the crisis in different ways over the years. I know you know what I'm talking about Clare,having yourself spent time within Orthodoxy,the SSPX, and plain old post conciliar new rite Catholicism.

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