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More and more of us are fed up with what has been going on in our Holy Catholic Church these past 50 years let alone the last two years, yet many somehow have on the latest fashion in Rose Colored Glasses.  Listen to this and see what side of the fence you find yourself on.  You know who you are.


http://www.onepeterfive.com/1p5-podcast-...angry-yet/
He is obviously angry (as are many). He is not afraid to express his anger and pain, but without the bitterness and sarcasm I often hear. I will listen to more of his podcasts.
Thanks for sharing that. So good to finally hear someone saying pretty much exactly what I've been thinking. The only thing that could've made it closer to my own thoughts is if he'd said "sunshine up our culottes" instead of "skirts"... I tried having this conversation with my priest, and actually I was pleasantly surprised at how much he opened up and agreed with me; however, he also stated that "nothing sinister is going on." ReallyHuh?
I think you should look at the big picture and remember the words of Jesus;

13 When Jesus went into the region of Caesarea Philippi 9 he asked his disciples, "Who do people say that the Son of Man is?" 14 They replied, "Some say John the Baptist, 10 others Elijah, still others Jeremiah or one of the prophets." 15 He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?" 16 Simon Peter said in reply, "You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God." 17 Jesus said to him in reply, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood 12 has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father. 18 And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, 13 and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

If Jesus says that teh gates of Hell will not prevail against the Church then that is reason enough for me to be optimistic. Also in the end of the Twenty Eighth Gospel of Matthew Jesus said, "And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age."

I think it would be more constructive if you were to pray for the Roman Pontiff  than to go around being mad all the time.
We should keep in mind Our Lord's parable of the wheat and the weeds. Matthew 13:24-30.  I think it is directly relevant. I think Our Lord wants us to know that there is a bad element present, but that we need to endure it. Trying to zealously dislodge it could do harm to faithful Catholics.

For instance, a very angry campaign against the bad element could cause scandal or even loss of faith among the little ones.

So, here again, as always, it is incumbent on us to know the mind of Our Lord.
(10-08-2015, 09:32 AM)Clare Brigid Wrote: [ -> ]We should keep in mind Our Lord's parable of the wheat and the weeds. Matthew 13:24-30.  I think it is directly relevant. I think Our Lord wants us to know that there is a bad element present, but that we need to endure it. Trying to zealously dislodge it could do harm to faithful Catholics.

For instance, a very angry campaign against the bad element could cause scandal or even loss of faith among the little ones.

So, here again, as always, it is incumbent on us to know the mind of Our Lord.

But if nobody says anything then other folks will be scandalized by what's going on.

In the end, explaining we can have bad bishops and even bad popes might as well save someone from despair or apostasy (or error).
The Wheat and the Weeds image is quite apt Clare. There's an excellent book about that parable that I highly reccommend by the late Father Thomas Green S.J. My woman and I used that last year for our Lenten reading.

Am I angry? Not really, there's nothing much I can do about the Pope, the worlds bishops or even the state of things in my own backyard. I find that the more I wallow in anger and rage the more I find excuses to cut back on praying and enjoying my life. It's just not worth it.

I can tell you that in the time I've worked in a healthcare setting its made it abundantly clear to me that death is real and life is too short to waste on getting worked up and ticked off about things we have no control over. Each day at First Hour in the Old Believer Prayerbook we pray Psalm 89:

Quote:Lord, thou hast been our refuge from generation to generation.
89:2 Before the mountains were made, or the earth and the world was formed; from eternity and to eternity thou art God.
89:3 Turn not man away to be brought low: and thou hast said: Be converted, O ye sons of men.
89:4 For a thousand years in thy sight are as yesterday, which is past. And as a watch in the night,
89:5 Things that are counted nothing, shall their years be.
89:6 In the morning man shall grow up like grass; in the morning he shall flourish and pass away: in the evening he shall fall, grow dry, and wither.
89:7 For in thy wrath we have fainted away: and are troubled in thy indignation.
89:8 Thou hast set our iniquities before thy eyes: our life in the light of thy countenance.
89:9 For all our days are spent; and in thy wrath we have fainted away. Our years shall be considered as a spider:
89:10 The days of our years in them are threescore and ten years. But if in the strong they be fourscore years: and what is more of them is labour and sorrow. For mildness is come upon us: and we shall be corrected.
89:11 Who knoweth the power of thy anger, and for thy fear
89:12 Can number thy wrath?  So make thy right hand known: and men learned in heart, in wisdom.
89:13 Return, O Lord, how long? and be entreated in favour of thy servants.
89:14 We are filled in the morning with thy mercy: and we have rejoiced, and are delighted all our days.
89:15 We have rejoiced for the days in which thou hast humbled us: for the years in which we have seen evils.
89:16 Look upon thy servants and upon their works: and direct their children.
89:17 And let the brightness of the Lord our God be upon us: and direct thou the works of our hands over us; yea, the work of our hands do thou direct.

Life is short, and there is so much that is totally out of our control. Don't waste your time getting worked up about what some career ecclesiastic says and does even if that career ecclesiastic goes by the name of " Holy Father" or whatever. It's just not worth it.  Before you know it you'll be on your deathbed wondering why you gave so much of your life to church politics.

Sure we ought to tell people who are curious and scandalized the way things should be and just how things have gone wrong, but truth be told it's hard enough for me to believe that the Catholic Church is even defensible half the time. I don't believe in light of the sheer chaos of modern Catholicism that the old apologetics and all that even make sense unless you suspend judgement and engage in using your imagination to erect a fantasy church that doesn't exist anymore if it ever did.

Perhaps just getting someone to start praying and sticking to a prayer rule is better than trying to explain why the leadership of the church have been destroying it from the inside out for a long time. Fidelity to prayer can keep a man afloat even while Rome burns, trying to follow every tweet and scandal of the pope or the cardinals or trying to reconcile pre conciliar fantasies with the reality of post conciliar Catholicism is just a waste of time.
(10-08-2015, 10:55 AM)Renatus Frater Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-08-2015, 09:32 AM)Clare Brigid Wrote: [ -> ]We should keep in mind Our Lord's parable of the wheat and the weeds. Matthew 13:24-30.  I think it is directly relevant. I think Our Lord wants us to know that there is a bad element present, but that we need to endure it. Trying to zealously dislodge it could do harm to faithful Catholics.

For instance, a very angry campaign against the bad element could cause scandal or even loss of faith among the little ones.

So, here again, as always, it is incumbent on us to know the mind of Our Lord.

But if nobody says anything then other folks will be scandalized by what's going on.

In the end, explaining we can have bad bishops and even bad popes might as well save someone from despair or apostasy (or error).

While I think there is some value to both your and Clare's points.

First and foremost one must be careful not cause scandal to the little ones. Second, there are things that need to be called out but that is where someone with more tact and maturity needs to know the correct time and audience to raise the issue.

I enjoyed the podcast, as somebody else stated the podcaster's position was presented, while upset, he presented his position without snarkiness or blanket verbal assaults.

Finally as FB points out, life is short. If we believe, truly believe, then all of this is part of God's plan. Stay faithful, work on personal sanctity, try to bring people with you on that journey and stop getting tangled up in the minutiae.
Angry? Can't say, I'm exactly angry. I guess if I was a bishop who has a voice in these things, I'd be more angry at what my peers were doing. As a layman, there's not much for me to be angry about. I think concerned is certainly a good way of putting it. The concern more comes from what may be and how we will need to react to it. If something big goes down, it make not be so clear cut what the correct/proper response of the laity should be. I guess the only thing we can do is rely on God to guide us.
(10-08-2015, 10:55 AM)formerbuddhist Wrote: [ -> ]Don't waste your time getting worked up about what some career ecclesiastic says and does even if that career ecclesiastic goes by the name of " Holy Father" or whatever. It's just not worth it.  Before you know it you'll be on your deathbed wondering why you gave so much of your life to church politics.


...said no St. Catherine of Sienna ever....  Nun  Groucho

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