FishEaters Traditional Catholic Forums

Full Version: Holy Communion Is for Sinners Not for Saints
You're currently viewing a stripped down version of our content. View the full version with proper formatting.
Pages: 1 2
I can't always post positive articles! :LOL: Here is a 'Catholic' take on Holy Communion and the Synod from Huffington Post.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/stan-chu-i...f=religion

Quote:The Mass is one important aspect of Catholicism central to every Catholic both those who are far from the church, as well as those who are committed church goers. The Mass is the source and summit of the Catholic life. It brings people together; it is the language of love and unity which most Catholics understand wherever they go. The Mass is the most unifying spiritual reality in Catholicism. Every Catholic remembers with joy and nostalgia the day they received First Holy Communion. It is at Mass that most Catholics meet God and the community. The primary means through which most Catholics identify with Catholicism is the Mass in their respective parishes. Mass is indeed a symphony of creation for most Catholics because it is here that they find the unity between all creation and all humanity so visibly present in the rituals, the symbols of worship and the actions of the celebrants and the people.

At Mass, our differences melt away as all Catholics are unified in prayer, worship, and visible signs and expressions of love and community. The Mass is truly the most visible and real source of unity for Catholics. Catholics and most Christians believe that the Mass was given to Christianity and entire humanity as a symbol of love by the founder of Christianity, Jesus Christ. Most Catholics do not care how Jesus Christ is present in the elements. That argument is largely passé now because most Catholics believe intuitively that what they receive is the true body of Christ and that there is something divine and greater than the ordinary in the bread and wine which they receive at Mass. I think that the language of love and inclusion and the spiritual and symbolic gifts of the Mass can help renew Catholicism and bring healing in the Church.

Interesting! I don't think most NO 'Catholics' have any idea what they are receiving!

Quote:This is why it is painful that this greatest gift of unity and love has become one of the instruments for exclusion and divisive debates in our churches and at the ongoing synod in Rome. Holy Communion is not a trophy which is given to those who have lived well or those who have run the race of life very well. Holy Communion is a remedy for sin; food for the journey of life. Before receiving communion all Catholics say this prayer: "Lord I am not worthy that you should enter my roof but only say the Word and my soul shall be healed." It is the prayer of all sinners before God. It is a prayer of the humble which affirms clearly that no Christian is righteous before God and that we are all in need of God's mercy. Even the words of consecration attributed to Jesus speak of 'the bloodshed for sinners' 'the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.' I have always wondered why we got ourselves into the business of determining who is worthy of receiving Jesus and those who are not. As Pope Francis said: "Who am I to judge?" Or as Jesus said: "He who is without sin should be the first to cast the stone on the sinner."

'Holy Communion is not a trophy which is given to those who have lived well or those who have run the race of life very well. Holy Communion is a remedy for sin; food for the journey of life.' Very true, but no mention of  Confession, or of being in a State of Grace. And you'll notice how that 'Who am I to judge' quote is again used to undermine Catholic doctrine.

Quote:When we look at the historical context of Paul who wrote about 'receiving the body of Christ unworthily', and the context of Justin who justified the exclusion of people from communion if 'they do not believe what we believe' we might see the wide gap between their teaching on exclusion from communion and what we are practicing today. One is not saying that the communion line should be a drive-through, but I am calling for a deeper and broader understanding of what Holy Communion does in the life of people, what it symbolizes for the Church and God's people in the light of the intention of the Lord Jesus in instituting this Holy Meal. Jesus did not intend the Eucharist to be a food for saints and perfect people; otherwise he would not institute it for people here on earth where as St Augustine says, 'all things human is imperfect.' Jesus intended Holy Communion to be a food for the community and a remedy for sinners, a help for those on pilgrimage to God's house, and a healing for those bruised by sins, evils, wounds and the burdens of life.

Notice how he just dismisses Scripture and the Fathers! ' One is not saying that the communion line should be a drive-through...' It sure sounds to me that is exactly what he's calling for.

Quote:The one who allowed the woman with the flow of blood to touch his garment, who allowed the public sinner to touch his body and wash his feet with her tears, will surely want the divorced and remarried, the prostitutes, the same-sex person who is looking for mercy, healing, grace and unconditional and unmerited divine love to come to his communion table. Jesus came to save sinners as St Paul said and if each of us looked into the depths of our souls we will only realize how far we are from the ideals of the Lord Jesus. None of us is indeed qualified to touch God or to receive Jesus in Holy Communion. But God accepts us out of love. In this light, none of us should judge anyone or be the dedicated guardians of other people's consciences or lay a heavy spiritual burden on their souls by excluding them from this food from heaven. Jesus did not exclude anyone from this meal neither should the Church if she wishes to follow the examples of Jesus.

I am convinced that we created human beings do not contaminate God by touching God in communion. When God comes in contact with me and when I come in contact with God it is not what is human and sinful in me which affect God's holiness. Quite to the contrary, it is God's holiness, grace and power which change what is sinful and human in a mysterious exchange governed by compassion and mercy. Indeed, God takes away our sin if we come to God with a sincere, contrite and open heart. This is what Christianity is about!

Of course, 'God takes away our sin if we come to God with a sincere, contrite and open heart.' However, that 'sincere, contrite and open heart' implies confessing our sins and receiving absolution, which is never mentioned. Given the tenor of this article, what is to prevent anyone who claims to be Christian from receiving Holy Communion to their own damnation?

Holy Communion is for both sinners and saints. Is this person really arguing that, for ex., Ste Therese shouldn't have received?

I'd gather not. But I love how people who think in these "progressive" ways take obvious truths, such as "Holy Communion is for sinners" -- with us all being sinners, of course -- and twisting them to distort the Truth that's there. He seems to be saying that because "Communion is for sinners," then repentance isn't necessary before receiving it. And the less bright among us will recognize that, "yes, Communion IS for sinners!" -- and go on to agree with the nonsense because of this article's title.

Even the Saints sinned. Either way, there's a difference between confessing one's sins with the desire to amend one's life (regardless of if they will continue to fall in the future) and receiving absolution from Christ himself for those sins vs. one living in sin and having no desire to amend their lives. Both are still sinners, but one is in a State of Grace when they receive Christ and the other is in a state of death.
I have found it interesting that while this is something very explicit in Scripture, I haven't seen the relevant passage brought up very often (except on forums, etc.), even by the high ranking defenders of its principles (those arguing for a more "open" communion don't even try to explain it away either):

1 Cor. 11[23] For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus, the same night in which he was betrayed, took bread. [24] And giving thanks, broke, and said: Take ye, and eat: this is my body, which shall be delivered for you: this do for the commemoration of me. [25] In like manner also the chalice, after he had supped, saying: This chalice is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as often as you shall drink, for the commemoration of me. [26] For as often as you shall eat this bread, and drink the chalice, you shall shew the death of the Lord, until he come. [27] Therefore whosoever shall eat this bread, or drink the chalice of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and of the blood of the Lord. [28] But let a man prove himself: and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of the chalice. [29] For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord.

(10-16-2015, 11:51 AM)SaintSebastian Wrote: [ -> ]I have found it interesting that while this is something very explicit in Scripture, I haven't seen the relevant passage brought up very often (except on forums, etc.), even by the high ranking defenders of its principles (those arguing for a more "open" communion don't even try to explain it away either):

1 Cor. 11[23] For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus, the same night in which he was betrayed, took bread. [24] And giving thanks, broke, and said: Take ye, and eat: this is my body, which shall be delivered for you: this do for the commemoration of me. [25] In like manner also the chalice, after he had supped, saying: This chalice is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as often as you shall drink, for the commemoration of me. [26] For as often as you shall eat this bread, and drink the chalice, you shall shew the death of the Lord, until he come. [27] Therefore whosoever shall eat this bread, or drink the chalice of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and of the blood of the Lord. [28] But let a man prove himself: and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of the chalice. [29] For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord.

I don't think it's a coincidence that they omit these crucial passages--as is well known these are omitted even in the whole of the liturgical readings of the whole daunting NO readings.
The simple, sad fact is that they are after a new faith and don't want to join the Anglicans or Lutherans for some reason.

As a somewhat tangential topic, have you guys seen the story of Synod Fathers weeping over some sacrilege. This pretty much sums up Catholic hierarchs of today: just a blob of emotions.
(10-16-2015, 11:51 AM)SaintSebastian Wrote: [ -> ]I have found it interesting that while this is something very explicit in Scripture, I haven't seen the relevant passage brought up very often (except on forums, etc.), even by the high ranking defenders of its principles (those arguing for a more "open" communion don't even try to explain it away either):

1 Cor. 11[23] For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus, the same night in which he was betrayed, took bread. [24] And giving thanks, broke, and said: Take ye, and eat: this is my body, which shall be delivered for you: this do for the commemoration of me. [25] In like manner also the chalice, after he had supped, saying: This chalice is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as often as you shall drink, for the commemoration of me. [26] For as often as you shall eat this bread, and drink the chalice, you shall shew the death of the Lord, until he come. [27] Therefore whosoever shall eat this bread, or drink the chalice of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and of the blood of the Lord. [28] But let a man prove himself: and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of the chalice. [29] For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord.

That's pretty straightforward. I guess the argument is about what 'exactly 'unworthily' means. Maybe these NO priests think that just physically showing up at Church makes one worthy. I really don't understand their attachment to Communion. They seem to want everyone to do it, and yet the same time have no criteria for or rules about it. Which only causes stagnation, confusion and disinterest in anyone who comes into contact with it. I mean seriously, how is it enticing to get someone to join in when it's just poorly tasting bread anyway? (Assuming that a Protestant wafer and a Catholic one taste the same  :P.) It would make more sense if they just turned it into an all-out party, which some have done. Kind of makes more sense in the post-Vatican II liturgy...
Take this All of you, and eat. This passage is used by some to mean that Jesus wants all of us to approach for Communion,period. The new Mass is basically a communal meal, and songs like All are Welcome and Gather Us In set the tone for a communal meal atmosphere. Also, in the new rite there no talk of sin. There's more of a protestant understanding that acceptance of Jesus Christ is all that's necessary to be saved, and that since all sin and fall short of the glory of God there's nothing that should hold one back from the Lords Table.

I must confess I'm sympathetic to this idea of Communion as more a medicine than a reward for remaining in a " state of grace" but I also know that the Church officially teaches that one must not just indiscriminately go up to recieve. 

My problem is that I'm so eastern in my ways that I hardly recieve at all, although I wish I could recieve at every liturgy sometimes.
Well, He does want all of us to receive, but as St. Paul says, we have to prove ourselves first. And it is more of a medicine than a reward, even under those conditions.  St. Ambrose's prayer before Mass really captures this well, even within the context of worthiness as a pre-requisite:

Lord, Jesus Christ, I approach your banquet table in fear and trembling, for I am a sinner, and dare not rely on my own worth but only on your goodness and mercy. I am defiled by many sins in body and soul, and by my unguarded thoughts and words. Gracious God of majesty and awe, I seek your protection, I look for your healing, poor troubled sinner that I am, I appeal to you, the fountain of all mercy. I cannot bear your judgment, but I trust in your salvation. Lord, I show my wounds to you and uncover my shame before you. I know my sins are many and great, and they fill me with fear, but I hope in your mercies, for they cannot be numbered. Lord Jesus Christ, eternal King, God and man, crucified for mankind, look upon me with mercy and hear my prayer, for I trust in you. Have mercy on me, full of sorrow and sin, for the depth of your compassion never ends. Praise to you, saving sacrifice, offered on the wood of the cross for me and for all mankind. Praise to the noble and precious blood, flowing from the wounds of my crucified Lord Jesus Christ and washing away the sins of the whole world. Remember, Lord, your creature, whom you have redeemed with your blood. I repent my sins, and I long to put right what I have done. Merciful Father, take away all my offenses and sins; purify me in body and soul, and make me worthy to taste the holy of holies. May your body and blood, which I intend to receive, although I am unworthy, be for me the remission of my sins, the washing away of my guilt, the end of my evil thoughts, and the rebirth of my better instincts. May it incite me to do the works pleasing to you and profitable to my health in body and soul, and be a firm defense against the wiles of my enemies. Amen.
(10-16-2015, 01:44 PM)formerbuddhist Wrote: [ -> ]Take this All of you, and eat. This passage is used by some to mean that Jesus wants all of us to approach for Communion,period. The new Mass is basically a communal meal, and songs like All are Welcome and Gather Us In set the tone for a communal meal atmosphere. Also, in the new rite there no talk of sin. There's more of a protestant understanding that acceptance of Jesus Christ is all that's necessary to be saved, and that since all sin and fall short of the glory of God there's nothing that should hold one back from the Lords Table.

I must confess I'm sympathetic to this idea of Communion as more a medicine than a reward for remaining in a " state of grace" but I also know that the Church officially teaches that one must not just indiscriminately go up to recieve. 

My problem is that I'm so eastern in my ways that I hardly recieve at all, although I wish I could recieve at every liturgy sometimes.

Not sure anyone here (or any sane person anywhere) is arguing that Communion is a "reward" for one that is in a state of grace. It is and always were and will always be a gift from the One who alone is Holy. BUT there's that thing about approaching the Eucharist in mortal sin which we can't simply ignore.

Jesus said "give not that which is holy to dogs; neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest perhaps they trample them under their feet, and turning upon you, they tear you."  I think we're generally familiar with the first part of this passage.  How often do we consider the last part though: "and turning upon you, they tear you."  The dogs Jesus refers to here are those who choose to remain enslaved by their sins rather than accept Jesus' invitation to follow Him to freedom.  These people will not be happy for being included.  If they are not prepared to receive the Sacrament, yet they do so anyway, they will be even worse off for having received in spite of the fact that some faithless Cardinals suggest otherwise.  They will be even more angry, and will be experiencing even more pain and suffering.  Then, though they will not completely understand, they will rightfully associate their pain and suffering with those who extended false mercy to them.

A section from the Sequence for Corpus Christi (a choral version here- I heard this piece during communion at the first Latin Mass I ever attended)



Behold the Bread of Angels,
made the Food of wayfarers,
Truly the bread of children,
not to be given to the dogs.
Presignified by figure,
When Isaac was immolated,
the Paschal Lamb was commanded,
Manna was given to the fathers.
Good shepherd, true Bread,
Jesus, have mercy on us:
Feed us, protect us,
Make us to see good things
in the land of the living.
Pages: 1 2