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Here's the link:

Honestly, what in the world is going on?  These heretical cardinals/bishops are coming out of the wood works to support heresy.  And the pope is mum.  This is beyond horrifying and worrisome.

And Pope Francis wants to decentralize and delegate decisions to church "leaders" such as these?  That would be a catastrophe.
The pope was mum when Ireland voted in ss"m" and when USA made ss"m" law of the land, so this I'm not too surprised.
From the article it could be worse. If it were for him the synod would have a gay couple "to enrich" the synod fathers.

Makes me wonder if that guy that left his CDF/professorship cushy job for some week long media attention was not far more honest than these bishops.

(10-19-2015, 07:58 PM)AllSeasons Wrote: [ -> ]Here's the link:

Honestly, what in the world is going on?  These heretical cardinals/bishops are coming out of the wood works to support heresy.  And the pope is mum.  This is beyond horrifying and worrisome.

And Pope Francis wants to decentralize and delegate decisions to church "leaders" such as these?  That would be a catastrophe.

These bishops and cardinals who are coming out of the woodwork were made bishops by John Paul II and Benedict XVI. Francis seems more "tolerant", so they are emboldened. I don't know about anyone else, but I want them to state clearly what they are about. That way I'm not fooled into thinking they're actually faithful Catholics. If I think that, I might buy their books and recorded talks.  I might think they're great men who I can look to for their priestly, fatherly, apostolic example and consider their counsel wise.  I'd rather things appear as they truly are so that my friends and I are not tricked by hirelings disguised as shepherds.

Even going by the title alone, it's all iffy-sounding. Saying "the Church needs gays" is like saying "the Church needs manic-depressives" or "the Church needs kleptomaniacs." The Church doesn't "need" any of them (or us, including myself in the manic-depressive group). We need the Church.

The Church should, obviously, be wide open to all the above, and to anyone else with a problem or a struggle, including those who fail repeatedly to deal well with their problems or struggles. And I totally hate it when some Catholics talk so stupidly, loosely, and wrongly, in terms of Church teaching) about homosexuality and homosexuals. And when they speak hatefully about them, it's all the worse. Much, much worse! But to talk as if homosexuality is not a disorder when it clearly is, even from a secular perspective, in terms of the evolutionary biology that secular types love to talk about unless it concerns matters that make them uncomfortable (homosexuality, race, "gender," etc.), is dangerous.

The article says, "Gracias supports the idea that the Church should get rid of terms such as 'disorder' and 'evil' when referring to homosexuality, and expressed hopes the Synod Fathers will 'use gentler language, not judgmental language.'"  I'm all for gentleness when gentleness can work. Amen to that! And I'm very much for not needlessly offending people. I'm very much against any talk of homosexuals being "evil". That is pure nastiness, and simply wrong. It's also based on a lot of assumptions (such as, for ex., every homosexual is an active one, that every active homosexual has full moral culpability for his acts, etc.).

But to think the word "disorder" is too much? How? It is a disorder, and there's no other way to put it, really. I'm manic-depressive and don't have any problem saying that I have a disorder, ya know? Manic-depression isn't "normal." It's not a good thing. It isn't a bonus of some sort. It isn't a "gift" in the sense that it's a positively willed thing from God (though everything that happens to us can be seen as a "gift" in some sense). Being manic-depressive doesn't make me evil either, does it? Doesn't mean I should be unfairly discriminated against, right? Doesn't mean I'm less human, less beloved by God, less deserving of respect and human charity, does it? And it also doesn't mean (necessarily, anyway) that I have every symptom of manic-depression, that I go on big gambling sprees that imperil my family, that I have binges wherein I have sex with strangers for months on end, etc. I simply have a disorder, plain and simple, and anyone trying to "normalize" that disorder is being ridiculous. To erase unnecessary stigma, to teach about it so there is understanding and compassion, to expect decency and basic human respect -- these things I understand. And I can understand people forming groups to achieve those ends, and to have people to talk to about those struggles (esp. in the case of homosexuals, who have to deal with a ton more nastiness than manic-depressives do). But I can't see having special rights for manic-depressives, to have political identity groups based on that condition, to be expected to be invited to synods, etc.

But here's this Cardinal, saying stuff like, the Church "must be all-embracing, inclusive," since to "not be welcoming would not be a Catholic attitude. It would not be Christ's attitude, certainly." As far as I know, homosexuals can go to Mass, join the various groups different parishes have, receive the Sacraments, etc., etc. So what is being done that is the antithesis of being "all-embracing, inclusive"? What is happening -- or perceived to be happening -- in our parishes that doesn't reflect a Catholic attitude on the official level? I mean, I can imagine some grotesqueries that a homosexual might be encountered with because of some "Catholic" bigots out there, who do exist (and who've been booted off this forum), but those types are most everywhere, and the only thing Church officials can do is teach, re-teach, remind people of the question "What Would Jesus Do?", to not be judgy little asses, to look at their own sins before they go on about the sins of another, and so forth. Perhaps also reminding them of that in the Confessional, when appropriate, and when it's time to receive Holy Communion would help as well! But aside from those things, what are the professional LGBTFIYAGI people expecting? Banners saying "Homosexuals Welcome"? Weekly parades? "Homosexual Parishioner Of The Week" contests? What?!

Aside from reigning in Catholic bigots, it sounds to me as if what they're really after (where "they" are the professional activist types, not "homosexuals"!) is for homosexuality to be declared to not be a disorder, for homosexual acts to be seen as OK, and for homosexual "marriage" to be accepted as a Sacrament.