FishEaters Traditional Catholic Forums

Full Version: Call for Vatican to revise liturgy concerning Jews
You're currently viewing a stripped down version of our content. View the full version with proper formatting.
Pages: 1 2

Nevermind the anti-Christianism in the Talmud. Nevermind the birkat ha-minim. Nevermind the Toledoth Yeshu. Etc. From the JTA - Jewish Telegraphic Agency:




Bishops in England and Wales call for Vatican to revise liturgy concerning Jews
November 25, 2015 4:28pm 


(JTA) — England and Wales’ bishops are joining Germany’s in urging the Vatican to change a liturgical reference to Jews in a prayer revised and reintroduced by Pope Benedict in 2008.

Archbishop Kevin McDonald, chairman of the bishops’ Committee for Catholic-Jewish Relations, said the current wording of the prayer has caused “great confusion and upset in the Jewish community,” the Catholic Herald reported Tuesday.

McDonald said the prayer, which Benedict revised when he allowed wider celebration of Mass using pre-Vatican II liturgy, should be amended to not be “a prayer for the conversion of Jews to Christianity.”

At issue are the words, “Let us also pray for the Jews: that our God and Lord may illuminate their hearts, that they acknowledge Jesus Christ is the Saviour of all men.” Previous versions of the prayer referred to the “blindness” of Jewish people and their “immersion in darkness.”

McDonald said the reintroduced prayer should be edited to resemble a widely used 1970 version, which says that “the Jewish people would continue to grow in the love of God’s name and in faithfulness of his Covenant.”

“Such a change would be important both for giving clarity and consistency to Catholic teaching and for helping to progress Catholic-Jewish dialogue,” McDonald said.



I have an idea: instead of asking for the conversion of the Jewish people let's introduce a prayer for the conversion of Catholic bishops.
If someone in a position of ecclesiastical power puts political correctness above the glory of God and the welfare of souls, then shame on them. They will have to answer for that. As far as I am concerned, I will never stop praying for conversions to the One True (and visible) Church.
I'm no sede, but the current prayer for the Jews to me seems to be heretical. I've never said anything like that before.
It's still a prayer for the Jews to remain faithful to their covenant right?
http://www.praytellblog.com/index.php/20...-for-jews/

Here's a good look at this from a mainstream Catholic blog. I warn you though, PrayTell is not really trad friendly, but it does give one a glimpse into the minds and reasoning processes of mainstream Catholics. Remember, PrayTell is associated with St Johns Abbey, the same Abbey that the Vatican commissioned to make that new illustrated Bible awhile back. It's also where Liturgical Press is located, a huge and very influential Catholic publisher here in the US whose works help set the tone for liturgy and theology in the new rites, especially here in the USA. 

I can't imagine the Good Friday prayer could possibly be any more vague than it is. As it stands the new one already does not in any way shape or form even imply that Jews need to convert or recognize Jesus Christ,unless to be faithful to the covenant is to be read through a Christian lens which would imply conversion. What these bishops ( and many mainstream Catholic laity, priests etc.) want is for the Catholic Church to completely exonerate and praise Judaism.  What they really want is for the Church to just come out and say " all paths lead to the top of the mountain,but especially Judaism." The words and actions of the modern popes and bishops for half a century have tended in that direction.

(11-27-2015, 05:26 PM)randomtradguy Wrote: [ -> ]I'm no sede, but the current prayer for the Jews to me seems to be heretical. I've never said anything like that before.

I think it's not quite heretical: to "grow in the love ofGod's name and faithfulness to his covenant" would mean ultimately accepting Christ. But it's so vague it obscures the very purpose of praying for the Jews (that there is indeed a special reason why they, of all people, should be Christians.)

Honestly, much of this is a proof to me of the truth of the Catholic faith: watch them try to teach heresy and fail to do so. If the Church weren't the true Church, it would have taught heresy centuries ago.
I doubt Pope Francis will touch this he's not that into liturgy and if he does the SSPX may not only reject this but return to the 1956 Missal
(11-27-2015, 05:48 PM)formerbuddhist Wrote: [ -> ]http://www.praytellblog.com/index.php/20...-for-jews/

Here's a good look at this from a mainstream Catholic blog. I warn you though, PrayTell is not really trad friendly, but it does give one a glimpse into the minds and reasoning processes of mainstream Catholics. Remember, PrayTell is associated with St Johns Abbey, the same Abbey that the Vatican commissioned to make that new illustrated Bible awhile back. It's also where Liturgical Press is located, a huge and very influential Catholic publisher here in the US whose works help set the tone for liturgy and theology in the new rites, especially here in the USA. 

There is an interesting comment at that blog: "And as noted here last time this came up, we still pray for the Jews be converted to the true faith multiple times a year in the reformed rite, in the Liturgy of the Hours (i.e. Evening Prayer for Sundays in Weeks 3 and 5 of Easter, Evening Prayer for Easter Sunday, Evening prayer for the vigil of the 7th Sunday of Easter, December 31 at Morning Prayer, Evening prayer on Wednesday of the second and fourth weeks of Easter, and a weekly petition among the alternative intercessions)."

I wonder what he means and if that's true?

C.
(11-27-2015, 05:54 PM)Optatus Cleary Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-27-2015, 05:26 PM)randomtradguy Wrote: [ -> ]I'm no sede, but the current prayer for the Jews to me seems to be heretical. I've never said anything like that before.

I think it's not quite heretical: to "grow in the love ofGod's name and faithfulness to his covenant" would mean ultimately accepting Christ. But it's so vague it obscures the very purpose of praying for the Jews (that there is indeed a special reason why they, of all people, should be Christians.)

Honestly, much of this is a proof to me of the truth of the Catholic faith: watch them try to teach heresy and fail to do so. If the Church weren't the true Church, it would have taught heresy centuries ago.

Excellent point, Optatus.
Pages: 1 2