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https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/pope-f...n-as-unimp

What in the world?

If you are orthodox, are you so because you love Christ and His Church, or because orthodoxy is "fashionable" for the moment in the group of people you most want to impress?  Thank God for Pope Francis, who through ambiguity is making clear the division between those who are truly orthodox and those who were just sucking up.


Edited by Vox to include text below:



Pope Francis attacks ‘fundamentalist’ Catholics, dismisses condom ban as unimportant



ABOARD THE PAPAL PLANE, November 30, 2015 (LifeSiteNews) -- On the plane returning from his journey to Africa today Pope Francis made his clearest remarks in condemnation of ‘fundamentalist’ Catholics.

"Fundamentalism is a sickness that is in all religions," Francis said, as reported by the National Catholic Reporter’s Vatican correspondent, Joshua McElwee, and similarly by other journalists on the plane.  "We Catholics have some -- and not some, many -- who believe in the absolute truth and go ahead dirtying the other with calumny, with disinformation, and doing evil."

"They do evil," said the pope. "I say this because it is my church."

"We have to combat it," he said. "Religious fundamentalism is not religious, because it lacks God. It is idolatry, like the idolatry of money."

Turning to Islam, the pope spoke of his friendship with a Muslim, adding, “You cannot cancel out a religion because there are some groups, or many groups in a certain point of history, of fundamentalists.”

"Like everything, there are religious people with values and those without," he said. "But how many wars … have Christians made? The sacking of Rome was not done by Muslims, eh?"

STORY: Vatican’s liturgy chief contradicts Pope Francis on Communion for non-Catholics

On the same flight a journalist asked about the use of condoms in the fight against AIDS and if it was time for the Church to change its position.

The pope acknowledged that condoms are one method of prevention, saying that the Church was faced with a perplexity of whether to follow the fifth commandment (Thou shalt not kill) “or that sexual relations are open to life.”

He dismissed this however as ‘not the problem’ and said it reminded him of the question asked Jesus, “Tell me, teacher, is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath? Is it obligatory to heal?’

Catholic News Agency carries the fullest rendition of the pope’s quotes on the matter, relating his words thus:

    “Let’s not talk about if one can use this type of patch or that for a small wound, the serious wound is social injustice, environmental injustice,” Pope Francis continued. “I don’t like to go down to reflections on such case studies when people die due to a lack of water, hunger, environment...when all are cured, when there aren’t these illnesses, tragedies, that man makes, whether for social injustice or to earn more money – I think of the trafficking of arms – when these problems are no longer there, I think we can ask the question ‘Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?’”

    “Because, if the trafficking of arms continues, wars are the biggest cause of mortality...I would say not to think about whether it’s lawful or not to heal on the Sabbath, I would say to humanity: ‘make justice,’ and when all are cured, when there is no more injustice, we can talk about the Sabbath.”

While in Africa the pope used very strong language to promote the climate change agreement at the Paris climate summit that started today. He said it would be a “catastrophe” if it did not achieve acceptance in Paris in the coming days and added that the decision came down to the choice “either to improve or to destroy the environment.”

Speaking at the United Nations center in Nairobi on November 26, Pope Francis said, “In a few days an important meeting on climate change will be held in Paris, where the international community as such will once again confront these issues. It would be sad, and I dare say even catastrophic, were particular interests to prevail over the common good and lead to manipulating information in order to protect their own plans and projects.”


So, absolute truth doesn't exist.

People die because of "environment."

War, not abortion, is the biggest cause of "mortality."

He defends Islam while poking at Christianity.

Dealing in arms is evil (I reckon that applies, too, to the Christians who are being hacked to death by Muslims).

We can't talk about theological issues until there are no more illnesses or tragedies (i.e., until Christ comes back and sets up a new heaven and a new earth).

I think I've had enough. Seriously.


(12-01-2015, 04:35 AM)Vox Clamantis Wrote: [ -> ]So, absolute truth doesn't exist.

People die because of "environment."

War, not abortion, is the biggest cause of "mortality."

He defends Islam while poking at Christianity.

Dealing in arms is evil (I reckon that applies, too, to the Christians who are being hacked to death by Muslims).

We can't talk about theological issues until there are no more illnesses or tragedies (i.e., until Christ comes back and sets up a new heaven and a new earth).

I think I've had enough. Seriously.

The one I'm still utterly baffled by is, "Proselytism is solemn nonsense."

I absolutely love what this Pope does for those who are poor, homeless, and hungry, and I think his turning down of lunch with Congress to be with those who needed food more than they did spoke volumes. I just really wish he spoke with more clarity and without skirting around some very important issues.
This. I pray for him daily, but, this. I cannot say more.


(12-01-2015, 04:35 AM)Vox Clamantis Wrote: [ -> ]So, absolute truth doesn't exist.

People die because of "environment."

War, not abortion, is the biggest cause of "mortality."

He defends Islam while poking at Christianity.

Dealing in arms is evil (I reckon that applies, too, to the Christians who are being hacked to death by Muslims).

We can't talk about theological issues until there are no more illnesses or tragedies (i.e., until Christ comes back and sets up a new heaven and a new earth).

I think I've had enough. Seriously.
(12-01-2015, 06:39 AM)dahveed Wrote: [ -> ]This. I pray for him daily, but, this. I cannot say more.


(12-01-2015, 04:35 AM)Vox Clamantis Wrote: [ -> ]So, absolute truth doesn't exist.

People die because of "environment."

War, not abortion, is the biggest cause of "mortality."

He defends Islam while poking at Christianity.

Dealing in arms is evil (I reckon that applies, too, to the Christians who are being hacked to death by Muslims).

We can't talk about theological issues until there are no more illnesses or tragedies (i.e., until Christ comes back and sets up a new heaven and a new earth).

I think I've had enough. Seriously.

He definitely goes much much farther in his heterodox statements than even John Paul II did! It truly seems as if he is basically denying absolute truth and equating orthodox Catholics with dangerous fundamentalists. Perhaps this man is really not the Pope and it's still Benedict.

All I know is that it's truly hard for me to want to be in communion with this man. He does not give the impression through his words and actions that he believes the same things as I do.

His answer to the condom question was classic political speak--- which is to say a deftly woven round of gibberish that totally evades the question or redirects it to something else. You gotta hand it to him he's a consummate politician, he knows how to evade and muddle things and give you no clear answers.

The biggest thing that irks me is his and so many other effete bishops constant defense of islam. If he loves it so much why doesn't he visit Raqqa, Syria or Saudi Arabia with his entourage, and without guards?
Oh, not Muslims who attacked Rome? Old St. Peter's and St. Paul's outside the Walls were plundered by the Saracens in 846, and they were only prevented from sacking the whole city by the Aurelian Wall.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_raid_against_Rome

Muslims remained a major threat to Italy for many centuries, and their greedy depredations targeted especially old churches and monasteries, capturing reliquaries and liturgical vessels. Even Monte Cassino was sacked!
(12-01-2015, 04:35 AM)Vox Clamantis Wrote: [ -> ]So, absolute truth doesn't exist.

People die because of "environment."

War, not abortion, is the biggest cause of "mortality."

He defends Islam while poking at Christianity.

Dealing in arms is evil (I reckon that applies, too, to the Christians who are being hacked to death by Muslims).

We can't talk about theological issues until there are no more illnesses or tragedies (i.e., until Christ comes back and sets up a new heaven and a new earth).

I think I've had enough. Seriously.

CaptCrunch73 Wrote:It certainly appears you and rorate caeli are in agreement (text below). I do not disagree; just speechless.

http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2015/12...ottom.html

Vacuity: Have we reached rock bottom?

Picture the dialogue:

Roman Judea, circa A.D. 29:

    "Master, is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for any cause?"
    Our Lord Jesus Christ: "There's hunger in Judea, so I won't answer that."

Two thousand years of Church, of the highest intellectual and devotional and artistic achievements in the history of mankind, and all the Holy Roman Church can accomplish now is this utter vacuity? That moral judgments cannot be made "when there are people dying because of a lack of water and hunger"?

Hunger somewhere has always been the predicament of mankind - this means moral judgments have always been and will always be inappropriate and that Our Lord Himself should never have delivered any (for context, first post here, full interview here).

I don't want to be Catholic anymore...

Everyday it's something else, it's become too difficult to trust the Pope and the magisterium, especially as one who is not trusting of anyone with power. I'd like to believe the faith isn't dead, but I'm pretty fairly convinced that the Church is no longer truly united under the Holy See and that it has been scattered.
Seanipie, feel the pain in your heart and share it. But we cannot give up. The Church has survived terrible things in the past - and RECOVERED!
Guys, you're bent out of shape for nothing. His answers were so not answers the first time I read it (yesterday at Rorate) I literally laughed. I mean, take his answer to the condom question: he says the Church's morality is in a predicament, but doesn't explain how so. Then he says we shouldn't even discuss such things because people are dying! Then he compares using condom to healing in the sabbath?
About fundamentalists: contrary to what the article claims this is not his clearest remarks on the subject. He doesn't say who he is talking about, what this means. Believing in absolute truth? Is that the same as blowing stuff up? Couldn't he be considered a fundamentalist if, as he claims, he could recite the Credo? What does the sacking of Rome has to do with anything? He just throws that in there.

This pope is just making non-sensical nonsequiturs here. Its like we have the Big Lebowski for the pope.  LOL
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