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Pope Francis said: "It hurts when I read that small passage from the Gospel of Matthew, when Judas, who has repented, goes to the priests and says: ‘I have sinned' and wants to give ... and gives them the coins. ‘Who cares! - they say to him: it’s none of our business!’ They closed their hearts before this poor, repentant man, who did not know what to do. And he went and hanged himself. And what did they do when Judas hanged himself? They spoke amongst themselves and said: 'Is he a poor man? No! These coins are the price of blood, they must not enter the temple... and they referred to this rule and to thatThe doctors of the letter. "
The Gospel, he continued, says that Judas came back repentant. But all that mattered to them “were the laws, so many words and things they had built”.
http://en.radiovaticana.va/news/2016/04/...ea/1221870



Hmm, seems he wants to beatify Martin Luther, now he is justifying Judas Iscariot.
I have read on several occasions about possessed who reply to the exorcist priests when asked "Tell me your name demon?",
"Iudas Kerioth", replies the demon..

Pope Francis has spoken outside of his area of expertise. and in this case he is mistaken.  I'm grateful these things are happening.  I don't appreciate the trouble it causes faithful Catholics, and someone needs to tell him that he is causing serious scandal.  I think it's about time, however, for people to shake off the idea that every single thing a pope thinks, says, and does is dogmatic and a mandate for how the rest of us should think, speak, and act.
What if all he means is that the Pharisees took part in Judas' eventual despair? Doesn't mean he is innocent or in Heaven or anything like that. Only that maybe that their actions further tempted him to despair which was the sin, with suicide, that made him be lost - because St Peter denied Our Lord but was forgiven. What Judas did to Our Lord was terrible but Blessed Anne Catherine Emmerich talks about Jesus trying to reach his heart.  If he had repented and trusted in God's Mercy, he could have come back. Any thoughts on that? I'm not at all saying Judas was innocent. Commonly from my understanding its supposed that his final sin was despair. Maybe the Pope is just saying the Pharisees had a part in that final sin.
(04-12-2016, 01:07 PM)little_flower10 Wrote: [ -> ]What if all he means is that the Pharisees took part in Judas' eventual despair? Doesn't mean he is innocent or in Heaven or anything like that. Only that maybe that their actions further tempted him to despair which was the sin, with suicide, that made him be lost - because St Peter denied Our Lord but was forgiven. What Judas did to Our Lord was terrible but Blessed Anne Catherine Emmerich talks about Jesus trying to reach his heart.  If he had repented and trusted in God's Mercy, he could have come back. Any thoughts on that? I'm not at all saying Judas was innocent. Commonly from my understanding its supposed that his final sin was despair. Maybe the Pope is just saying the Pharisees had a part in that final sin.
The thing is, Francis is declaring that Judas did actually "repent".
Any thoughts on that?
(04-12-2016, 01:44 PM)Truecharity Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-12-2016, 01:07 PM)little_flower10 Wrote: [ -> ]What if all he means is that the Pharisees took part in Judas' eventual despair? Doesn't mean he is innocent or in Heaven or anything like that. Only that maybe that their actions further tempted him to despair which was the sin, with suicide, that made him be lost - because St Peter denied Our Lord but was forgiven. What Judas did to Our Lord was terrible but Blessed Anne Catherine Emmerich talks about Jesus trying to reach his heart.  If he had repented and trusted in God's Mercy, he could have come back. Any thoughts on that? I'm not at all saying Judas was innocent. Commonly from my understanding its supposed that his final sin was despair. Maybe the Pope is just saying the Pharisees had a part in that final sin.
The thing is, Francis is declaring that Judas did actually "repent".
Any thoughts on that?

It would appear that Judas had repented, at least initially, but gave up all hope instead of seeking Our Lord's forgiveness after trying to talk to the temple priests:

Matthew 27: 3-4 (DR)

Quote:[3]Then Judas, who betrayed him, seeing that he was condemned, repenting himself, brought back the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and ancients, [4] Saying: I have sinned in betraying innocent blood. But they said: What is that to us? look thou to it
(04-12-2016, 02:33 PM)Sir Charles Napier Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-12-2016, 01:44 PM)Truecharity Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-12-2016, 01:07 PM)little_flower10 Wrote: [ -> ]What if all he means is that the Pharisees took part in Judas' eventual despair? Doesn't mean he is innocent or in Heaven or anything like that. Only that maybe that their actions further tempted him to despair which was the sin, with suicide, that made him be lost - because St Peter denied Our Lord but was forgiven. What Judas did to Our Lord was terrible but Blessed Anne Catherine Emmerich talks about Jesus trying to reach his heart.  If he had repented and trusted in God's Mercy, he could have come back. Any thoughts on that? I'm not at all saying Judas was innocent. Commonly from my understanding its supposed that his final sin was despair. Maybe the Pope is just saying the Pharisees had a part in that final sin.
The thing is, Francis is declaring that Judas did actually "repent".
Any thoughts on that?

It would appear that Judas had repented, at least initially, but gave up all hope instead of seeking Our Lord's forgiveness after trying to talk to the temple priests:

Matthew 27: 3-4 (DR)

Quote:[3]Then Judas, who betrayed him, seeing that he was condemned, repenting himself, brought back the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and ancients, [4] Saying: I have sinned in betraying innocent blood. But they said: What is that to us? look thou to it

The Church Fathers and Doctors would point out that the guilt that Judas felt was the Worm of Conscience beginning to gnaw at him: the Worm that dieth not (Mk 9:44) unto eternity. Not repentance at all, he was trying to exonerate himself, and the priests (equally guilty) would not let him. That is why he hung himself. Repentance does not lead to suicide...

Poor Pope Francis, he appears to be bound to his own misperception of 'everyone is a victim' except those in positions of wealth and power.

"And praying, they said: Thou, Lord, who knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen, to take the place of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas hath by transgression fallen, that he might go to his own place." (Act 1:24-25)
(04-12-2016, 02:40 PM)Truecharity Wrote: [ -> ]Repentance does not lead to suicide...

True, but despair and giving up does.
Judas had remorse, confessed his sin, and made some satisfaction. What He was lacking was faith in Christ, the sole redeemer and one who could justify him.  He turned to the rope instead of to Christ.  I do think there is a good point buried in what the Pope is saying.  Priests (and all of us really), need to be ready to show Christ to the remorseful.  We shouldn't blow them off like the priests did to Judas. Imagine if they had instead had compassion on him and encouraged him to turn back to Christ in penitence?

This is not a new idea either.  St. Ambrose, in his work against the Novatians on repentance, compares the Novatians, who denied absolution to the repentant, to the priests who blew off Judas.  He notes that the priests were unrepentant of a greater sin (they were fully conscious of their sin, since they saw the money as unclean) and refused to absolve Judas of a lesser sin, which made their own condemnation even worse (the parallel was the Novatians were guilty of heresy and schism, yet refused forgiveness to much lesser sinners).

St. Ambrose Wrote:27. But what wonder is it if you should deny salvation to others, who reject your own, though they lose nothing who seek for penance from you? For I suppose that even Judas might through the exceeding mercy of God not have been shut out from forgiveness, if he had expressed his sorrow not before the Jews but before Christ. "I have sinned," he said, "in that I have betrayed righteous blood." Matthew 27:5 Their answer was: "What is that to us, you see to that." What other reply do you give, when one guilty of a smaller sin confesses his deed to you? What do you answer but this: "What is that to us, you see to that?" The halter followed on those words, but the punishment is all the more severe, the smaller the sin is.
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/34062.htm
Pope St. Leo the Great teaches that Judas never repented of his grave sin—that he committed suicide out of despair, adding guilt to guilt:

The traitor Judas did not attain to this mercy, for the son of perdition (Jn. 17:12), at whose right hand the devil had stood (Ps. 108:6), had before this died in despair; even while Christ was fulfilling the mystery of the general redemption. Even he perhaps might have obtained this forgiveness, had he not hastened to the gallowstree; for the Lord died for all evildoers. But nothing ever of the warnings of the Saviour’s mercy found place in that wicked heart: at one time given over to petty cheating, and then committed to this dread parricidal traffic. … The godless betrayer, shutting his mind to all these things [expressions of the Lord’s mercy], turned upon himself, not with a mind to repent, but in the madness of self-destruction: so that this man who had sold the Author of life to the executioners of His death, even in the act of dying sinned unto the increase of his own eternal punishment. (Sermon 62, De passione Domini XI [PL 54], in The Sunday Sermons of the Great Fathers, vol. 2, p. 183)

St. Augustine holds exactly the same view:
For if it is not lawful to take the law into our own hands, and slay even a guilty person whose death no public sentence has warranted, then certainly he who kills himself is a homicide. … Do we justly execrate the deed of Judas, and does truth itself pronounce that by hanging himself he rather aggravated than expiated the guilt of that most iniquitous betrayal, since, by despairing of God’s mercy in his sorrow that wrought death, he left to himself no place for a healing penitence? … For Judas, when he killed himself, killed a wicked man, and passed from this life chargeable not only with the death of Christ, but also with his own: for though he killed himself on account of his crime, his killing himself was another crime. (The City of God, Bk. I, ch. 17)

St. Thomas Aquinas writes: “To save Judas would … be contrary to [God’s] foreknowledge and disposition, by which He prepared for him eternal punishment; hence it is not the order of justice [as such] that renders impossible Judas’s salvation, but the order of eternal foreknowledge and disposition” (In IV Sent., dist. 46, qu. 1, art. 2, qa. 2, ad 3), and says matter-of-factly:

As the use of grace is related to the final effect of predestination, so the abuse of it is related to the effect of reprobation. Now, in the case of Judas, the abuse of grace was the reason for his reprobation, since he was made reprobate because he died without grace. Moreover, the fact that he did not have grace when he died was not due to God’s unwillingness to give it but to his unwillingness to accept it—as both Anselm and Dionysius point out. (De veritate, q. 6, art. 2, obj. 11: this part of the objection Thomas holds as true.)
(04-11-2016, 11:15 PM)Truecharity Wrote: [ -> ]Pope Francis said: "It hurts when I read that small passage from the Gospel of Matthew, when Judas, who has repented, goes to the priests and says: ‘I have sinned' and wants to give ... and gives them the coins. ‘Who cares! - they say to him: it’s none of our business!’ They closed their hearts before this poor, repentant man, who did not know what to do. And he went and hanged himself. And what did they do when Judas hanged himself? They spoke amongst themselves and said: 'Is he a poor man? No! These coins are the price of blood, they must not enter the temple... and they referred to this rule and to thatThe doctors of the letter. "
The Gospel, he continued, says that Judas came back repentant. But all that mattered to them “were the laws, so many words and things they had built”.
http://en.radiovaticana.va/news/2016/04/...ea/1221870



Hmm, seems he wants to beatify Martin Luther, now he is justifying Judas Iscariot.
I have read on several occasions about possessed who reply to the exorcist priests when asked "Tell me your name demon?",
"Iudas Kerioth", replies the demon..

This illustrates an important difference between Christianity and Judaism.
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