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Dear Vox,

1. I have a Novus Ordo Sunday mass which is just 1 hour from me.

2. I lost my NO friends because I had no time staying together with them.

3. I found NO mass has some negative effects on them regarding the image of God, and the way how they should worship God.

4. I know I can make a choice, whether to attend the NO or to go to TLM.
(06-04-2016, 02:16 AM)Poche Wrote: [ -> ]Being in communion with the Holy Father is an important part of the tradition of the Catholic Church. As Pope Francis would say, "Follow your conscience."
:) :) :)

The implication with any Catholic saying "Follow your conscience", including the Pope, is that a Catholic have a well formed conscience. The "Follow your conscience" bumper sticker quote, when used haphazardly, becomes a license to do whatever one wants. Just like other familiar off the cuff remarks such as "Who am I to judge". 

CCC 1776-1802

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/ar...s1c1a6.htm
Don't forget that if you are not a sedevacantist there's no reason why you must ever reject the Mass of Paul VI. If it makes you feel better to attend the New Rite and there's a decent parish near you than attend it with a clean conscience.

What  some trads often  fail to realize is that the highest authorities in the Roman Catholic Church have approved the Mass of Paul VI as the ordinary form of the liturgy in the Roman Rite,period,close the book. The 1962 Missal is an option on the smorgasbord, end of story. Vatican II and it's official interpretations for the last 60 some odd years has changed the face of the Church forever.  Some trads don't get this.

Of course there's room for disagreement here, but if it's good enough for the last several popes,the world's bishops ands millions of Roman Catholic faithful why shouldn't the official New Rites not be good enough for you, especially if you feel God's presence when you attend them?

Suffering is a part of life but it shouldn't be the whole of it. If you have to take a train 5 hours just to attend a liturgy that's more than necessary. Don't burn out. Find some balance. 

You do not need to suffer this so deeply Puppy. You know you can email me if you want to discuss this.  We go way back. :)
(06-04-2016, 01:39 AM)puppy99 Wrote: [ -> ]Dear friends on FE,

Sorry to say, but I am really tired of being a traditionalist.

As someone mentioned here the other day, while being a Novus Ordo Catholic, he was most happy, and it's the same with me. When I began to know the church's tradition, my confusion and struggles increase each day. And I am both physically exhausted and full of doubts in my heart.

First of all, I have to travel by train every 4 or 5 hours on the road to another city (region) to attend the mass every Sunday. Not to mention that the trip is costly, and exhausting as well. Now I think I am just crazy perhaps?

Secondly, being a minority doesn't make you feel good, I am sure everyone here shares the same experience as mine. We are all within the same church, however, some of our opinions are just so much from the people around you, especially your best friends who attend Novus Ordo mass only. This makes me suffer so much, and I feel quite lonely when I am with them.

Now I am truly tired, I thought of converting to the Orthodox church, oh but no. For I believe in the Catholic church.

But I really don't want to attend TLM any more, I think to attend Novus Ordo mass every Sunday can make me happy. That's it!

Can I be saved if I do this?

My own journey has taken me from atheist, to Protestant, back to atheist, to novus ordo Catholic, and finally to traditional Catholicism, so hopefully I can provide some insight, as least from the perspective of my own experience.  First of all, being a traditional Catholic is not easy.  I was introduced to traditional Catholicism when I started dating my now wife.  Before that, I was a good novus ordo boy.  I liked where I was, had my circle of novus ordo friends, and I was happy.  After I "converted" to traditional Catholicism, there's definitely a degree of isolation; however, luckily for me, a good priest friend of mine who married us says the Latin Mass, and he's served as a bridge for that transition.  We're also very blessed with 5 or so Latin Masses within 30 minutes of where we live, so we actually have the luxury of taking our pick.  I do miss my ordo ordo friends; we still hang out with them sometimes, but I've stopped going to the novus ordo Mass at my old parish, so there's always a sense of awkwardness, especially with another priest friend who says Mass there.  I still attend the novus ordo Mass very occasionally, but when I do, I can really see the difference between the two Masses.  The novus ordo Mass feels watered down, even though the priests do try to say it very reverently.  What I miss the most is the community.  If there's one thing that novus ordo Catholics do better than traditional Catholics, it's that they are very good at community building.  They're also very charitable and welcoming.  They are accepting and do not judge, though I suppose you could argue whether that's a good thing or not.  I think in the end, novus ordo Catholicism and traditional Catholicism are not just two different Masses, but also represent two very different lifestyles.  Personally, I think there's a place in the Church for both, as they appeal to different segments of the congregation.  You can be saved in both, but I think ultimately, the responsibility rests on you, regardless of which brand of Catholicism you subscribe to.

Okay, that was kind of long-winded, but I hope that helps.
Dear Formerbuddist,

I tried to e-mail you, and as you didn't reply to my last e-mail, I guess you have been very busy because you are planning to marry your girl soon.  :)

Thanks for your comment, and actually lately one of my orthodox friend tried to persuade me to be converted to the Orthodox church. I was tempted at first, and finally I have decided not to go. It's mainly because they are not Catholic enough, and as you know, I can't accept married priests.

Dear AllSeasons,

Thanks for sharing your story with me, and I have to say it's beautiful, I am convert as well.

Yes, here Novus Ordo communities are good at community buildings as well, for the traditional communities, perhaps it's because they spent too much time preparing the traditional liturgy, they attach less importance to this part, so that the small-circle culture is prevalent in this community, a lot of gossips, which makes more people leave the mass. I am sad to see this. Surely attending the traditional masses helps me much, but as FB has said, as the NO mass is fully valid and licit here and I should have no doubt to go there.
(06-04-2016, 09:29 AM)puppy99 Wrote: [ -> ]Dear AllSeasons,

Thanks for sharing your story with me, and I have to say it's beautiful, I am convert as well.

Yes, here Novus Ordo communities are good at community buildings as well, for the traditional communities, perhaps it's because they spent too much time preparing the traditional liturgy, they attach less importance to this part, so that the small-circle culture is prevalent in this community, a lot of gossips, which makes more people leave the mass. I am sad to see this. Surely attending the traditional masses helps me much, but as FB has said, as the NO mass is fully valid and licit here and I should have no doubt to go there.

You're welcome.  My recommendation would be that if attending the novus ordo Mass would help you stay with the Catholic faith, I think you should go ahead and attend.  Also keep in mind that you don't have to attend either one exclusively - you can attend both.  Personally, I find it odd to be pigeon-holed into either a traditional Catholic or a novus ordo Catholic, probably because I'm somewhere in the middle.  Both Masses are valid, though you do need to keep an eye out for liturgical abuses in some novus ordo Masses.  Even novus ordo Masses can range from traditional to liberal to charismatic to kumbaya-singing messes, so be careful with that.  For us, even though we attend the Latin Mass almost exclusively, we're still part of the local novus ordo community, so we kind of get the best of both worlds.
If it were me and I had to travel so far for mass, I would try to strike a balance between the two.  Perhaps attend the NO 2-3 times a month and the TLM once a month.  Maybe mark high feast days at the TLM.  It seems to me that you have to travel really far for either mass and that it could easily cause burn out with all that travel alone.  It would certainly make attending mass less expensive (gas may be cheap but it isn't free).

Just a few thoughts . . .
(06-04-2016, 01:39 AM)puppy99 Wrote: [ -> ]Sorry to say, but I am really tired of being a traditionalist.

Gospel of St. John
6:67 After this, many of his disciples went back and walked no more with him.
6:68 Then Jesus said to the twelve: Will you also go away?
6:69 And Simon Peter answered him: Lord, to whom shall we go?  Thou hast the words of eternal life.

Either the Catholic Church is true or it's not.
Either the Conciliar Church is a sham or it's not.
The Truth and the sacraments are all that matter. We don't go to Mass for "community." I think you should stick it out--find some way to make it more enjoyable. Better than endangering your faith with a phony Mass.
I should clarify what I wrote above. I didn't mean to imply that the Novus Ordo Mass is invalid or that it would be universally, objectively sinful to attend and participate. I don't think so at all. Vox expressed how I view the matter very well in her post. I think the Novus Ordo, while valid, brings a lot of confusion and difficulties that are often completely unpredictable until one actually shows up at the church door.

And I would repeat what I said about how since I don't get the sense that the poster is "losing her Faith" or abandoning Catholicism because she doesn't have a proper understanding of what traditional Catholicism means, I don't think she is at all endangering her soul by choosing to attend the Novus Ordo. I would disagree with what charlesh is implying in his post by suggesting that Puppy is abandoning the faith by abandoning her traditionalism. I think this might be an opportunity for her to clarify what traditional faith truly means and then enter more deeply into it. Sometimes that requires going to the Novus Ordo, sometimes that requires receiving milk before meat as St. Paul says.

On the other hand, I would also repeat what I said at first about Christ calling us to the Cross. We shouldn't give something up only if it makes us "tired" or if it doesn't make us "happy." If there is a true financial burden or a serious psychological or physical burden by making the long travel to the Latin Mass, then that is a different issue. But it has to be more than feeling tired or confused. There have to be solid reasons. I think Puppy has good reasons based on what she has said in this thread.
I don't consciously try to be a "Traditionalist" per se. I go to the Novus Ordo more often than the Latin mass because it is more readily available in my area. But I also really love my Latin Breviary and enjoy praying in Latin. These days I see "Traditionalism" as more of a cultural and political identity. My religious identity is unhyphenated Catholic.
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