FishEaters Traditional Catholic Forums

Dear friends on FE,

Sorry to say, but I am really tired of being a traditionalist.

As someone mentioned here the other day, while being a Novus Ordo Catholic, he was most happy, and it's the same with me. When I began to know the church's tradition, my confusion and struggles increase each day. And I am both physically exhausted and full of doubts in my heart.

First of all, I have to travel by train every 4 or 5 hours on the road to another city (region) to attend the mass every Sunday. Not to mention that the trip is costly, and exhausting as well. Now I think I am just crazy perhaps?

Secondly, being a minority doesn't make you feel good, I am sure everyone here shares the same experience as mine. We are all within the same church, however, some of our opinions are just so much from the people around you, especially your best friends who attend Novus Ordo mass only. This makes me suffer so much, and I feel quite lonely when I am with them.

Now I am truly tired, I thought of converting to the Orthodox church, oh but no. For I believe in the Catholic church.

But I really don't want to attend TLM any more, I think to attend Novus Ordo mass every Sunday can make me happy. That's it!

Can I be saved if I do this?

I wrote this on another similar thread, and I think it's worth repeating here. Christ calls us to the Cross to be His true disciple. The Cross is not easy. It is the way of sacrifice, and sure intellectually that makes sense, but it's hard when emotionally we are left dry and empty, perhaps even abandoned by the communities that we were hoping would welcome us, perhaps much like Christ entering Jerusalem before His Passion?

You touch on an important point about the label "Traditional Catholic," and in fact is one reason why I don't call myself by that label even though others would identify me as one. The issue is that the label "Traditional Catholic" makes it one option among others, an equal, a preference or taste just as good as any other, another "flavor" you can choose from. Formerbuddhist often makes this point.

But the principal point of traditional Catholicism is that it is the very heart of what it means to be Catholic and isn't simply a preference of individuals. The fact that you see your traditional faith in that manner suggests that you have an improper view of traditional faith, and the fact that you mention your confusion only grows as you "began to know the church's tradition" more and more suggests to me the same point. For in truth the more you know the beautiful traditions of the Church, her wonderful diversity within the unity of the Mystical Body, the more there is room for joy, for peace, for clarity above all the chaos of this world and especially the chaos of the Novus Ordo.

We don't "choose" the traditional faith to "be happy." Our purpose is the glory of God and the salvation of our souls, and in that we find an unspeakable happiness, but that is secondary to doing God's will, to being a soldier of Christ, an ambassador for God. Give us this day our daily bread comes only after we pray firstly that God's Name be hallowed and His will done.

To answer your question, then, since you don't seem to really demonstrate an understanding of the traditional faith, such that you allow your emotions to override considerations of reason, I would be inclined to think your salvation isn't jeopardized in any obvious and direct way because it's not as if you were giving up "the Faith." You're giving up a preference, likely poorly formed, and this may very well be the beginning possibility for you to find the truth of the matter, to find clarity. As St. Paul says, we need milk before we can chew the meat.

That being said, I would say persevere in the practice of the traditional Faith, going to the Latin Mass, discern the spirits, and speak to a good traditional priest who can clarify these matters for you, but I don't think this is an issue of losing your chance at salvation.

Being in communion with the Holy Father is an important part of the tradition of the Catholic Church. As Pope Francis would say, "Follow your conscience."
:) :) :)

I'm sorry you're feeling this way. I only have to travel about an hour away to get to the TLM. If it was much further I would go to the Novus Ordo Mass here in town, and maybe make a special trip to the TLM on major feast days when I'm able. 

It doesn't mean you're not a trad if you can't, don't want to, or simply refused to travel 4 or 5 hours to get to a TLM. Actually it's traditional if you have to travel more than an hour to Mass period (Novus Ordo, TLM, whatever).....not to go at all and to sanctify Sunday in some other way. So don't fell bad if you want to go somewhere closer.

I'm not sure at if it's been your experience or not but a lot of my confusion and doubt has come from trying to take in too much information, and too many opinions and viewpoints at once. We have too much information at our fingertips. It's easy for me to read different newspapers and websites and start to doubt. If that's the case with you too, I know that it's helped me to try to stick to the basics and not to take on too much at once.

I dunno if this helps, I hope it does.

Dear Therese,

I am happy to meet a girl like you on FE, I have been travelling almost every Sunday like this for 5 years, so perhaps from this you can see why I am exhausted.

My doubt and confusion are mainly about why so few people are attracted by the traditional Latin masses, and why the traditional masses are so rarely offered in the church today. Like in my countries, the number of the Latin mass can be counted with your 2 hands. And we are the 4th largest country in the world.

Actually I have to travel to pass through the custom twice every Sunday to attend the mass. Now I truly doubt if it's God's will for me to do this, because I am a human being, not a machine. I can't afford to it physically and financially any more.

Now I don't think God want me to go there every Sunday, and it's true that we can continue to attend NO masses and remain a trad.

God bless.

I go to the Novus Ordo because I don't have a TLM very close by. Of course you can be saved if you go to the Novus Ordo! :) We are not Pharisees. If you can find a Novus Ordo that doesn't endanger your faith with crazy liturgical abuses and stuff, where things are handled properly, there is nothing wrong with you fulfilling your Sunday obligation and the obligation for other holy days there! No worries.

Thanks ShareLove.

Here in the community I visit frequently there is a small-circle culture, a kind of donatism which I most hate.

I feel uncomfortable about being a minority within the church, and I lost many Novus Oro friends, which makes me very sad.

(06-04-2016, 03:10 AM)puppy99 Wrote: [ -> ]Thanks ShareLove.

Here in the community I visit frequently there is a small-circle culture, a kind of donatism which I most hate.

I feel uncomfortable about being a minority within the church, and I lost many Novus Oro friends, which makes me very sad.

You lost Novus Ordo friends because you're a traditionalist? Why?

(06-04-2016, 02:41 AM)puppy99 Wrote: [ -> ]Dear Therese,

I am happy to meet a girl like you on FE, I have been travelling almost every Sunday like this for 5 years, so perhaps from this you can see why I am exhausted.

My doubt and confusion are mainly about why so few people are attracted by the traditional Latin masses, and why the traditional masses are so rarely offered in the church today. Like in my countries, the number of the Latin mass can be counted with your 2 hands. And we are the 4th largest country in the world.

Actually I have to travel to pass through the custom twice every Sunday to attend the mass. Now I truly doubt if it's God's will for me to do this, because I am a human being, not a machine. I can't afford to it physically and financially any more.

Now I don't think God want me to go there every Sunday, and it's true that we can continue to attend NO masses and remain a trad.

God bless.

Puppy99, I'm happy to meet you here on FE too! It might sound strange, but I'm actually a guy and when I was confirmed they told us to pick whoever we wanted as our Confirmation Saint, male or female, so I picked St. Therese. I'm a convert and my conversion happened after reading Story of A Soul.

I admire the fact that you've done that for so long, and traveled that far to get to a Traditional Mass. I believe God is going to bless you for it! I've also struggled a lot with why the Traditional Mass is not appreciated more. But it is growing and it also seems like a lot of the Novus Ordo Parishes that had really weird things going on liturgically are moving in a more traditional direction if I can say that. It seems strange that it wouldn't happen faster, but I believe it will continue to grow and maybe soon you will have a Traditional Mass closer to you.

Cheer up Puppy, don't be down!  :)

-John

(06-04-2016, 01:39 AM)puppy99 Wrote: [ -> ]Dear friends on FE,

Sorry to say, but I am really tired of being a traditionalist.

As someone mentioned here the other day, while being a Novus Ordo Catholic, he was most happy, and it's the same with me. When I began to know the church's tradition, my confusion and struggles increase each day. And I am both physically exhausted and full of doubts in my heart.

First of all, I have to travel by train every 4 or 5 hours on the road to another city (region) to attend the mass every Sunday. Not to mention that the trip is costly, and exhausting as well. Now I think I am just crazy perhaps?

Secondly, being a minority doesn't make you feel good, I am sure everyone here shares the same experience as mine. We are all within the same church, however, some of our opinions are just so much from the people around you, especially your best friends who attend Novus Ordo mass only. This makes me suffer so much, and I feel quite lonely when I am with them.

Now I am truly tired, I thought of converting to the Orthodox church, oh but no. For I believe in the Catholic church.

But I really don't want to attend TLM any more, I think to attend Novus Ordo mass every Sunday can make me happy. That's it!

Can I be saved if I do this?

First things first:  If it isn't clearly understood around here that you can attend the N.O. Mass if that's all that's available to you, then we're doing something wrong. FishEaters is not a sede site, nor "an SSPX site," though sedes and those who attend SSPX chapels can post here just fine if they abide by the rules. The Novus Ordo Mass is a valid Mass, period, the end. Even the SSPX says so. If that's all you have that's reasonably available to you, then attend.  The Novus Ordo is vastly inferior in every single way other than the Consecration itself, its validity, so attending the TLM, when possible, is something that trads should definitely do. Trads can also get TLMs set up in their own parishes so that they won't have to drive for hours to attend. Learn more about that on this page: http://www.fisheaters.com/tlmsetup.html

Second, if you have to travel more than an hour to get to Mass, you're not obliged to attend. Stay home and make a spiritual communion.

Third, you have to understand what Traditional Catholicism is. Please read this page:  http://www.fisheaters.com/traditionalcatholicism.html  Read over it once, and then go back over it and click the links as you go.

Most importantly, though, is that you have to do what your conscience tells you to do -- and you must inform your conscience with sound catechesis. You can't rightfully not believe X simply because you're "tired" of X. X is either true or it's not true, and that's all there is to it.

The way you speak about your friends and being unable to get close to them because they attend the N.O. and you don't tells me you're "doing Traditional Catholicism wrong." Our Lord spent His time with tax collectors, whores, and Pharisees -- the latter of whom He disagreed with vehemently.  I'm sensing that you might be thinking you have to agree with someone, and completely, in order to be friends with them and enjoy their company. But that's not how Jesus lived His life on earth. Or, if you're spending your time trying to "turn people trad," and are going about it in an ineffective or annoying way, you're wasting your time in that regard. But that doesn't mean you're wasting your time being friends with them. You can sometimes convert people better through actions than with words. This page might help you:  http://www.fisheaters.com/conversionoftheheart.html

Since your N.O. friends are Catholic, and assuming they're sincere, I'm not seeing what the "block" is between you as a trad and them as non-trad Catholics when it comes to friendship. Catholic dogmas don't change. The Creed is the Creed. How you should be treating each other should be the same no matter which Masses you attend. So what's up?

You said that "some of our opinions are just so much from the people around you":  are you intimating that your N.O.-attending friends say things that are wrong and that you disagree with initially -- but then come to agree with? If that's the case, you need to work on your catechesis, get firmly grounded, and then pray for fortitude, making a habit out of exhibiting fortitude. If the friends you're talking about are actually leading you to disbelieve in Church dogma, if you're unable to teach them better, if they're able to negatively influence you more than you're able to positively influence them, then they're an occasion of sin for you, and you should avoid them.

But bottom line:  you're in Church to worship God in the most fitting  manner. While I'm ALL about community, and SO wish trad parishes were a lot more "vivacious" and welcoming and had lots more social things going on, in the end, we're there to worship God. That's what matters most of all. Given that, you know the right thing to do (but, as said, if you have to drive hours to get to Mass, you're dispensed from attending).

What IS it about attending the N.O. Mass that makes you "happy," as you say? What do you get out of it that you don't get out of the TLM? How much does the travel time play into this? How are the people attending each Mass different, generally speaking? What opinions do your friends hold end up becoming your opinions? How do their incorrect (I assume) opinions become yours? What's the process? Is your changing of your mind based on reason or on wanting to fit in -- or something else?